ISV Compared To God's Word Version

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    GW (which I am more comfortable calling it) is supposed to be based on William Beck's translation. But there are some distinct differences.The GW uses what is called the "closest natural equivalent". Yet in actuality it's just functionally-equivalent.The well-known and well-respected Baker Publishing Company markets the translation.

    The International Standard Version is supposed to be more literal than the NIV but not as much as the NASB. It's also supposed to be more readable than the NIV.

    I have found some similarities between the GW and the ISV. The former came out earlier. Did the ISV base some of their wording on the GW translation? I don't know for sure. At times I will quote whole verses -- but most of the time just phrases from both.

    John

    1:13
    ISV : who were born, not merely in a physical sense, or from a fleshly impulse, or from man's desire, but of God.
    GW : These people didn't become God's children in a physical way -- from a human impulse or from a husband's desire to have a child. They were born of God.

    3:16
    ISV : For this is how God loved the world : He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but have eternal life.
    GW : God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

    5:34
    ISV : I myself do not accept human testimony, but I am saying these things so that you may be saved.
    GW : But I don't depend on human testimony, I'm telling you this to save you.

    5:41
    ISV : I do not accept human praise.
    GW : I don't accept praise from humans.

    Acts

    3:15
    ISV : source of life
    GW : source of life

    17:26
    ISV : every nation of humanity
    GW : every nation of humanity

    Philippians

    1:6
    ISV : I am convinced of this, that the one who began a good work among you will bring it to completion by the day of Christ Jesus.
    GW : I'm convinced that God, who began this work in you, will carry it through to completion on the day of Christ Jesus.

    1:9
    ISV : And this is my prayer, that your love will keep on growing more and more in full knowledge and perfect insight.
    GW : I pray that your love will keep on growing because of your knowledge and insight.

    1:29
    ISV : For you have been given the privilege for Christ's sake not only to believe in him but also to suffer for him.
    GW : God has given you the privilege not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for him.

    3:10
    ISV : ... and what it means to share in his sufferings by becoming like him in his death.
    GW : ... and what it means to share his sufferings. In this way I'm becoming like him in his death.

    Colossians

    1:13
    ISV : He has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of the Son whom he loves.
    GW : God has rescued us from the power of darkness and has brought us into the kingdom of his Son whom he loves.

    2:18
    ISV : let no one who delights in humility and the worship of angels
    GW : let no one who delights in false humility and the worship of angels
     
  2. Rippon

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    Snips From Romans

    9:22
    ISV : extrelely patient
    GW : extremely patient

    12:2
    ISV : So that you may be able to determine
    GW : Then you will always be able to determine

    14:1
    ISV : arguing over differences of opinion
    GW : get in an argument over differences of opinion

    15:4
    ISV : so that we might have hope through the endurance and encouragement that the Scriptures give us.
    GW : so that we would have confidence through the endurance and encouragement which the Scriptures give us.
     
  3. Rippon

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    1&2 Thess. Snips

    1 Thess.

    1:6
    ISV : In spite of a great deal of suffering, you welcomed the word with the joy that the Holy Spirit produces.
    GW : In spite of a lot of suffering, you welcomed God's word and with the kind of joy that the Holy Spirit gives.

    2:13
    ISV : you did not accept it as the word of humans but for what it really is -- the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.
    GW : you realized it wasn't the word of humans. Instead, you accepted it for what it really is -- the word of God. This word is at work in you believers.

    4:11
    ISV : Also, make it your goal to live quietly
    GW : Also, make it your goal to live quietly

    2 Thess.

    2:11
    ISV : God will send them a powerfuldelusion so that they will believe the lie.
    GW : God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie.

    3:2
    ISV : Also pray that we may be rescued from worthless and evil people, since not everyone holds to the faith.
    GW : Also pray that we may be rescued from worthless and evil people, since not everyone shares our faith.
     
  4. Rippon

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    1 Timothy Snips

    1:6
    ISV : Some people have left these qualities behind and have turned to fruitless discussion.
    GW : Some people have left these qualities behind and have turned to fruitless discussion.

    1:7
    ISV : yet they do not understand either what they are talking about or the things about which they speak so confidently.
    GW : However, they don't understand what they're talking about or the things about which they speak so confidently.

    3:8
    ISV : They must not be two-faced, addicted to wine
    GW : They must not be two-faced or addicted to alcohol.

    4:15
    ISV : Devote your life to them so that anyone can see your progress.
    GW : Devote your life to them so that everyone can see your progress.
     
  5. Jerome

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    Absolutely positively not, because according to the ISV Committee on Translation:
    Those many many correspondences with the God's Word Translation you noted are merely incessant extraordinary coincidences, yes they are:thumbs:
     
  6. Rippon

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    Hi Jerome. I was hoping someone would chime in. There are just too many of those "extraordinary coincidences." So, aside from the ISV declaration of being a totally new work and derived from no other English translation -- it has frequently borrowed from the GW translation. I wish the ISV would modify its lofty claims and acknowledge the obvious.
     
    #6 Rippon, Mar 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2009
  7. Rippon

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    2 Timothy Snips

    1:14
    ISV : With the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us, protect the good treasure that has been entrusted to you.
    GW : With the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us, protect the Good News that has been entrusted to you.

    2:10
    ISV : For this reason, I endure everything for the sake of those who have been chosen so that they, too, may receive the salvation that is in Christ Jesus
    GW : For this reason, I endure everything for the sake of those who have been chosen so that they, too, may receive salvation from Jesus Christ

    2:14
    ISV : Remind others about these things, and warn them in the sight of God not to argue over words. Arguing does not do any good but only destroys those who are listening.
    GW : Remind believers about these things, and warn them in the sight of God not to quarrel over words. Quarrelling doesn't do any good but only destroys those who are listening.

    3:10
    ISV : my way of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, my endurance
    GW : my way of life, my purpose, my faith, my patience, my love, and my endurance

    3:14
    ISV : continue in what you have learned and found to be true
    GW : continue in what you have learned and found to be true

    4:5
    ISV : But you must be clear-headed about everything. Endure suffering. Do the work of an evangelist. Devote yourself completely to your ministry.
    GW : But you must keep a clear head in everything. Endure suffering. Do the work of a missionary. Devote yourself to your work.
     
  8. Rippon

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    1 Corinthians

    1:18 : Both translations have exactly the same wording.

    1:25 : Both translations are the same.

    2:9 : No eye eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him.[ Both the same]

    3:8 : The same.

    4:8

    ISV: You already have all you want! You have already become rich! You have become kings without us! I wish you really were kings so that we could become kings with you!
    GW : You already have all you want! You've already become rich! You've become kings without us! I wish you really were kings so that we could be kings with you.

    4:12 : Both translations have :"We wear ourselves out."

    6:2 : Both translations have :"Insignificant cases."

    6:3 : Both translations have :"Not to mention things in this life."

    7:4 : Aside from GW having the contractual form of does not, both translations are exactly alike for the entire verse.

    7:5
    ISV : Do not withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so for a set time to devote yourselves to prayer.
    GW : Don't withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so for a set time to devote yourselves to prayer.

    7:29 : Both versions have :"The time has been shortened."
     
  9. Rippon

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    Still In 1 Corinthians

    9:25 : Both have : "Everyone who enters an athletic contest."

    10:18 : Both have :"From a human point of view."

    14:40 : Both are exactly the same for the entire verse.

    15:3 : Both have :"I passed on to you the most important points.'

    15:19 : Both have :"We deserve more pity than any other people."

    15:27 : Both have : "This clearly excludes."

    16:4
    ISV : It is worthwhile for me to go.
    GW : If I think it's worthwhile for me to go.

    16:6 : Both have:"probably stay with you."

    16:10
    ISV : he does not have anything to be afraid of while he is with you, for he is doing the Lord's work as I am.
    GW : he doesn't have anything to be afraid of while he is with you. He's doing the Lord's work as I am.

    16:16
    ISV : people like these and to anyone else who shares their labor and hard work.
    GW : people like these and anyone else who shares their labor and hard work.
     
  10. franklinmonroe

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    Titus 1:14-16

    ISV (2008) above, GW (1995) below --
    and not pay attention to Jewish myths or commands given by people who reject the truth.
    Everything is clean to those who are clean, but nothing is clean to those who are corrupt and unbelieving. Indeed, their very way of thinking
    and their consciences have been corrupted.
    They claim to know God, but they deny him by their actions. They are detestable, disobedient, and disqualified to do anything good.


    They shouldn't pay attention to Jewish myths or commands given by people who are always rejecting the truth.
    Everything is clean to those who are clean. But nothing is clean to corrupt unbelievers. Indeed, their minds
    and their consciences are corrupted.
    They claim to know God, but they deny him by what they do. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit to do anything good.
    The ISV plagiarizes 52 words (81%) in exactly the same order (of 64 total words in the GW rendering). The ISV uses mere varations of several of other GW terms: basically the GW "unbelievers" changes form slightly to "(those who are) unbelieving"; "rejecting" drops the ending to be "reject" in the ISV. Other alterations are also very minor: "what they do" becomes "their actions" in the ISV; "minds" of the GW becomes "way of thinking". The biggest difference is probably where "unfit" becomes the ISV's "disqualified". Disgusting.
     
    #10 franklinmonroe, May 31, 2009
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  11. Rippon

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    Very interesting Franklin; very disturbing as well.

    The information on this thread needs to be communicated to both parties. The GW translation has been wronged.
     
  12. Rippon

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    Second Corinthians

    1:17
    ISV : When I planned this I did not do it lightly, did I?
    GW : You don't think that I made these plans lightly,do you?

    2:16 : both translations have :"To some people we are a deadly fragrance."

    2:17
    ISV : At least we are not commercializing God's word like so many others.
    GW : At least we don't go around selling an impure word of God like many others.

    3:5
    ISV : By ourselves we are not qualified to claim that anything comes from us.
    GW : By ourselves we are not qualified in any way to claim that we can do anything.

    5:13
    ISV : so if we were crazy, it was for God, if we are sane, it is for you.
    GW : So if we were crazy, it was for God. If we are sane it is for you.

    5:16
    ISV : So then, from now on, we do not think of anyone from a human point of view. Even if we did think of Christ from a human point of view, we don't think of him that way any more.
    GW : So from now on we don't think of anyone from a human point of view. If we did think of Christ from a human point of view, we don't anymore.

    7:5
    ISV : We suffered in a number of ways. Outwardly there were conflicts, inwardly there were fears.
    GW : we suffer in a number of ways. Outwardly we have conflicts, and inwardly we have fears.

    8:10
    ISV : I am giving you my opinion on this matter because it will be helpful to you.
    GW : I'm giving you my opinion because it will be helpful to you.

    8:14
    ISV : At the present time, your surplus fills their need, so that their surplus may fill your need.
    GW : At the present time, your surplus fills their need so that their surplus may fill your need.

    8:21 : All 22 words of this verse match exactly.

    10:7
    ISV : Look at the plain facts!
    GW : Look at the plain facts!
     
  13. franklinmonroe

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    Luke 1:70-74

    ISV (2008) above, GW (1995) below --
    just as he promised long ago through the mouth of his holy prophets
    that he would save us from our enemies and from the grip of all who hate us.
    He has shown mercy to our ancestors and remembered his holy covenant,
    the oath that he swore to our ancestor Abraham.
    He granted us deliverance from our enemies' grip so that we could serve him without fear


    He made this promise through his holy prophets long ago.
    He promised to save us from our enemies and from the power of all who hate us.
    He has shown his mercy to our ancestors and remembered his holy promise,
    the oath that he swore to our ancestor Abraham.
    He promised to rescue us from our enemies' power so that we could serve him without fear
    In this passage the ISV plagiarizes 54 words (81%) in mostly the same order (of 66 total words in the GW rendering). Furthermore, the ISV only makes insignificant substitutions in several places: "promised" approximates "(made this) promise"; "grip" replaces the GW's "power" (two occurrences); and the ISV uses "covenant" instead of "promise". Perhaps, the biggest difference might be where "(granted) deliverance" replaces "(promised) rescue". Pathetic.
     
    #13 franklinmonroe, Jun 1, 2009
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  14. Rippon

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    I was looking forward to the ISV full Bible so much over the last few years. But when I started 'my research' and found so much unacknowledged borrowing I have been getting rather annoyed with the ISV. My enthusiasm has waned shall we say.

    Thanks for your periodic investigations Franklin.

    I think the Chrstian public should be made aware of this plagiarism.

    God's Word Translation should be given credit where credit is due. I just got my New Testament on Saturday for less than $6.00. It compares favorably with the NLTse. (I sense a new comparison thread in the future.)
     
  15. franklinmonroe

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    2 Corinthians 8:21-22

    I am also disappointed in the ISV.

    ISV (2008) above, GW (1995) below --
    We intend to do what is right, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of people.
    We have also sent with them our brother whom we have often tested in many ways and found to be dedicated.
    At present he is more dedicated than ever because he has so much confidence in you.

    We intend to do what is right, not only in the sight of the Lord, but also in the sight of people.
    We have also sent with them our Christian brother whom we have often tested in many ways and found to be a dedicated worker.
    We find that he is much more dedicated now than ever because he has so much confidence in you.
    In this passage the ISV plagiarizes 57 words (87%) in precisely the same order (of 65 total words in the GW rendering). Ridiculous.
     
  16. franklinmonroe

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    James 4:7-9

    Locating these duplicated passages is embarrassingly too easy. ISV (2008) above, GW (1995) below --
    Therefore, submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will run away from you.
    Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
    Be miserable, mourn, and cry. Let your laughter be turned into mourning, and your joy into gloom.


    So place yourselves under God's authority. Resist the devil, and he will run away from you.
    Come close to God, and he will come close to you. Clean up your lives, you sinners, and clear your minds, you doubters.
    Be miserable, mourn, and cry. Turn your laughter into mourning and your joy into gloom.
    In these verses the ISV plagiarizes 41 words (76%) in precisely the same order (of 54 total words in the GW rendering). But additionally, the ISV uses some only slightly varied forms of other GW choices: "(to) God" replaces "God's (authority)"; "cleanse" instead of "clean"; and "(be) turned" rather than simply "turn" (including these 3 variations with the 41 directly repeated words would raise the plagiarism rate to 81%).

    Other ISV alterations are also fairly straightforward: "submit" for "place"; "purify" or "clear"; "hearts" for "minds"; and "double-minded" for "doubters". It seems that the ISV changes are often motivated by a desire to display a bit more literal rendering.

    I have found a few verses where the ISV strongly resembles the NASB, but they have been singular verses and usually short sentences (6-to-8 words). The similarities between the ISV and the GW are very frequent, sometimes several verses in succession, and with rather lengthy word-strings (20 words in-a-row and more). A few somewhat unusual or unique renderings and punctuation shared by the ISV with the GW make a case of plagiarism evident.
     
    #16 franklinmonroe, Jun 1, 2009
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  17. franklinmonroe

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    Hebrews 7:11

    Notice the similarity of the ISV (above) with the NASB (middle); while GW (bottom) is repetitive, verbose, and different --
    Now if perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood-for on this basis the people received the law-what further need would there be to speak of appointing another kind of priest according to the order of Melchizedek, not one according to the order of Aaron?


    Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?


    The people established the Levitical priesthood based on instructions they received. If the work of the Levitical priests had been perfect, we wouldn't need to speak about another kind of priest. However, we speak about another kind of priest, a priest like Melchizedek, not a Levitical priest like Aaron.
    Yet, the ISV still seems to only share two rather unique interpretations with GW: "to speak" of or about; and another "kind of" priest. Nothing like these two elements were found in any other versions I consulted.
     
    #17 franklinmonroe, Jun 1, 2009
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  18. Rippon

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    Second Corinthians Continued

    11:3
    ISV : However, I am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by its tricks, so your minds may somehow be lured away from sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
    GW : However, I'm afraid that as the snake deceived Eve by its tricks, so your minds may somehow be lured away from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

    11:7
    ISV : Did I commit a sin when I humbled myself
    GW : Did I commit a sin when I humbled myself

    11:19
    ISV : You are wise, so you will gladly put up with fools.
    GW : You're wise, so so you'll gladly put up with fools.

    11:23
    ISV : Are they Christ's servants? I am insane to talk like this, but I am a far better one!
    GW : Are they Christ's servants? It's insane to say it, but I'm a far better one.

    12:3
    ISV : was snatched away to Paradise
    GW : was snatched away to paradise

    12:11
    ISV : I have become a fool. You forced me to be one.
    GW : I have become a fool. You forced me to be one.

    12:13 : The entire 22 word verse is exactly the same in both versions.

    12:15
    ISV : Do you love me less because I love you so much?
    GW : Do you love me less because I love you so much?

    13:1
    ISV : Every accusation must be verified by two or three witnesses.
    GW : Every accusation must be verified by two or three witnesses.

    13:3
    ISV : since you want proof that Christ is speaking through me
    GW : Since you want proof that Christ is speaking through me
     
  19. franklinmonroe

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    Revelation 6:4-5

    ISV (2008) above, GW (1995) below --

    A second horse went out. It was fiery red, and its rider was given permission to take peace away from the earth
    and to make people slaughter one another. So he was given a large sword.
    When the lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Go!" I looked, and there was a black horse!
    Its rider held a scale
    in his hand.


    A second horse went out. It was fiery red. Its rider was given the power to take peace away from the earth
    and to make people slaughter one another. So he was given a large sword.
    When the lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Go!" I looked, and there was a black horse,

    and its rider held a scale.

    In this passage the ISV plagiarizes 62 words (95%) and all in the same order (of 65 total words in the GW rendering); the word "and" accounting for 2 of the 8 total differnces. There are a limited amount of ways to accurately translate Greek words into English, obviously resulting in many versions sharing some of the very same terms. Observe some of the same English words also used by the NASB --
    And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth,
    and
    that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.
    When He broke the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, "Come." I looked, and behold, a black horse;
    and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand.
    The terms "horse", "peace", and "seal" would be difficult to avoid in this passage. Yet there are still plenty of differences; notice even that the color of the horse is mentioned before "went out", "sword" comes before "given" (and "scales" is not singular). So, the complaint against the ISV is not just shear multitude of the same English words are used as GW but that mostly those words are arranged in precisely the same order!

    In addition, the ISV often replicates the somewhat distinctive renderings found in the GW (that are not regularly seen in other versions). For examples the ISV/GW: uses "second" while the vast majority of other versions simply use "another"; adds "fiery" to describe red (I did also observe this adjective in the NIV and Weymouth); inserts the word "away" rarely found in others (although Goodspeed does); has "slaughter" as oppossed to the much more common "slay" or "kill"; "large" to describe sword when "great" (not neccessarily denoting size) is dominant in other versions; "lamb" (NIV, NLT, also in Weymouth) while most versions use the pronoun "he"; "Go!" when nearly all other versions use "Come!" or "Come and see!"; "rider" (NIV, NLT, Weymouth) while the consensus of other translations is "he that sat on" (or "upon/thereon"). An alternative to "scale" is "balance"; "living creature" can also properly be "beast"; "people" could have been "men", "they", etc. So, to have all of these peculiar renderings in common could not be accidental.

    BTW, I am not neccessarily saying that these are poor renderiings by the ISV. In fact, "fiery red" is an excellent translation for the Greek word pyrros (Strong's #4450).
     
    #19 franklinmonroe, Jun 2, 2009
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  20. Rippon

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    Galatians

    1:13
    ISV : how I kept violently persecuting God's church and was trying to destroy it
    GW : how I violently persecuted God's church and tried to destroy it

    2:7
    ISV : In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel for the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised.
    GW : In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with telling the Good News to people who are not circumcised as Peter had been entrusted to tell it to those who are circumcised.

    2:10
    ISV : The only thing they asked us to do was to remember the destitute, the very thing I was eager to do.
    GW : The only thing they asked us to do was to remember the poor, the very thing which I was eager to do.

    2:13
    ISV : also joined in this hypocrisy.
    GW : also joined him in this hypocrisy.

    3:8
    ISV : Scripture saw ahead of time
    GW : Scripture saw ahead of time

    3:15
    ISV : let me use an example from everyday life
    GW : let me use an example from everyday life.

    3:20
    ISV : God has acted on his own
    GW : God has acted on his own.
     

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