Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Gina B, Nov 2, 2002.
Is this speaking of literal or spiritual death?
Nope. It is talking about physical death.
By the way, I'm not saying spiritual death as in those who don't believe going to hell.
I mean that man ALL died spiritually, and you cannot die again once you are a Christian. You are dead once spiritually, and whether you are "raised" or not, all men will be judged.
It would kinda reinforce the OSAS thing and support my thoughts that men CAN become without sin while still living on earth after they are saved.
Argue with it and show me wrong. It's just a thought I had, so it should be fairly easy for anyone to do. My thoughts aren't all that deep.
Super good question, Gina. Think about those who will be alive at His coming!
The quoted verse is Heb. 9:27. The fact that judgement is even mentioned indicates that death is meant in it's original meaning, (Gen 2:17) -a permanent separation of the soul (one's consciousness) from the body, and both eventually from God, after the resurrection of the dead (Rev. 20:11-15). (This separation is one making the person incommunicado.) This is the reason Paul said that death reigned from Adam to Moses, (Romans 5:12-14, Ephesians 4:9-10, I Pet.4:6) -until the giving of the Law( Luke 16:22-24).
[ November 02, 2002, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: zyzex ]
What this verse says to me is that there are no second chances. It does away with the RC doctrine of purgatory.
Physical death is the leaving of the soul/spirit from the terrestrial (earthly) body. This is required. All men die.
Even if the rapture took place right now, I would "die" as my soul/spirit will depart from my earthly body.
At the end of the Tribulation there will be millions of unsaved who will enter alive into the Millenium. But they WILL die, someday.
Two men have not died. Enoch and Elijah both were "translated", including their bodies, into heaven. Amazing fact. But they WILL RETURN and they WILL DIE as the two witnesses of Revelation.
I don't mean to be a trouble maker......but.....didn't Lazarus die twice. Maybe the little girl that Jesus healed and a few from the Old Testament and a few from Acts......Maybe I need to think about this a little further before I say anything else
rkbo and our other non-denominational visitors here, just to be a troublemaker back atchya ( )
In the normal course of events, it is appointed unto men once to die.
Supernatural intervention by God Himself...well, that's a different ball of wax.
[ November 02, 2002, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Don ]
You will die a physical death unless you are raptured out when Christ returns. If you do die, the next thing on your agenda will be your judgment.
I am still not trying to be a trouble maker but it seems to me that the text is not implicit in the idea that we die and then we are judged. It seems to say that we die and judgment is after death not to say we can't die and dwell somewhere for a time, (heaven or hell)then the judgment. But after saying all that I think the text is best read with the following verse
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
I think the onceness of the thing is what is being expressed. See what ol man Clarke thinks about it
[But after this the judgment] They shall die but once, and be judged but once, therefore there is no metempsychosis, no transmigration from body to body; judgment succeeds to dying; and as they shall be judged but once, they can die but once.
(from Adam Clarke Commentary)
Death is the wages of sin.
This present physical body is not yet delivered from sinfulness and must physically die. Rom. 8
Our righteousness is that provided through Christ, by the Grace of God, it is a product of His dying on the Cross, where sin was judged for believers and death was defeated; spiritually first, then ultimately in the adoption of our bodies, prepared for eternity. Again Rom. 8
Our ability to live sinless lives is not possible because we come forth from the grave of 'being dead in trespasses and sins and are bound by the grave clothes (John 11; the raising of Lazarus).
At the time Christ shall say, 'Loose him and let him go' then we shall be holy as we will then no longer be bound hand and foot by the grave clothes (this present body).
In this view the raising of Lazarus is a picture of the salvation of man, 1) raising from the condition of being dead in trespasses and sin; 2) yet still under the penalty of death (in the flesh) and subject to die. 3) the judgement of believers is not unto condemnation, but to rewards; 4) The statement, loose him and let him go will be heard when the rapture occurs when this corruptible shall put on incorruptible and be changed.
1 Cor. 15: 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Die used here is apothnesko which means "perish."
I looked up the Greek for all and it meant all. - Jim
Is the All that die in Adam equal to the All that are made alive in Christ?... Or does the All that are made alive in Christ conditional upon only those that Father gave his Son to save?... Brother Glen
[ November 08, 2002, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]
As I see it, you're only addressing the saved with your question. All means all. All men die and all men shall be made alive - lost or saved.
Rev. 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. No point in judging a dead man, huh?
You see it differently?
All means all? WHAT NO!!!!!! ROFL
As for all men dying in Adam, that's spiritual isn't it? And the only ones who are raised are the saved?
So what you are saying is that the ALL men that were made alive in Christ... Are alive only in the sense that one receives... Justice and the other receives Mercy... No matter what group you belong to Christ died for ALL that ALL might have a resurrection.
Shown by the type and shadow of the two theives on the cross... Justice and Mercy!... One was shown the grace of God... This day shalt thou be with me in paradise... Nothing according to scripture was said to the other... The Justice of God!
All Gods blood bought children between the conception and the grave are quickened... Made alive in Jesus Christ because they are All dead in trespasses and in sins according to Ephesians 2:1... How dead is the you in question?... Brother Glen