It may be nonsense, but it is worth a bag of popcorn

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Phillip

    Phillip
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    I just had to do this. I just read: Are People who "used" to be a Christian still saved?
    from page 10 to the end. I actually followed the advice of a poster and got a bag of popcorn.

    I was rolling on the floor before I was through.

    If you haven't read the entire thread yet, I suggest picking up on page 10 and don't miss a minute of this soap-opera (unplugged by Dr. Bob when the script writers could not come up with new material.)

    Check it out.

    No need for reply, just wanted to make a statement....couldn't help it. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Watchman

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    Phillip, as scary as this may sound, I must say that Michelle made a lot of sense, and backed herself up with scripture as proof. If she goes so far as to say that one loses his/her salvation, then there is where I draw the line. (God deals with us now as sons.)
    There has been very well known preachers of the gospel who have seemed to have compromised their message to appease other religions, and names could be mentioned here, but let's not. I believe that these preachers and teachers are in danger of losing great rewards that could have been their's, but be saved "...as though by fire."
    There was a thread some time ago about God withdrawing His love and I must say, Hos. 9:15 is good evidence, "...I will love them no more." From the very beginning (Genesis 6) God said that He will not always strive with man. I do feel that there are some people who go so far into wickedness and rebelliun against God that they are, indeed beyond hope. These are the vessels of wrath in Romans 9:22. But, again, sons are sons and are dealt with by God as sons.
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I agree with your post 100% Watchman, but we never have the knowledge or the ability to decide from our perspective who is and who is not saved. We may question their wisdom, their statements, and their actions. We may point out their error and inconsistancy, but we cannot make a statemant about who is and is not saved.

    This, IMHO, is where the above named poster crossed the line and where I stepped in. To boldly claim that this president or that evangalist are not saved is unbiblical judgement.
     
  4. Pete Richert

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    HEY! I posted after page 10!!!
     
  5. Phillip

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    Absolutely, I think this is a good example of the "extremism" (for lack of a better term) that we are seeing in America today. You can always go "overboard" in any direction, whether the issue is right or wrong from the beginning.

    In this case, Michelle is right on her basic theology of salvation, but she is going too far by being the "all seeing, all knowing judge" based on her limited knowledge of the world.

    AND, I do NOT mean this as a personal insult, we all do this to a certain extent because we perceive things based on our experiences and what has entered our senses since birth.

    In her opinion, I may not be a Christian because I don't believe her KJVo theory; but in my opinion I know I'm a Christian and I also am relatively certain Michelle is (either that or she is certainly a good liar). No doubt that she is striving to do what is right. But, in striving, we can miss the forrest if we are not careful. IMHO
     
  6. corinne

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    Hey, I was there too, and I was also Michelle's boxing partner LOL !

    Read the thread if you have time, it is really worth it. You will find very interesting the way the whole thing develops. It is not often that the beating party gets beaten with its own stick.

    Corinne
    http://www.christianresistance.com
     
  7. michelle

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    First of all, I was accused by AVL1984 of saying Billy Graham and the President were not saved, by calling them for what they are: wolves in sheeps clothing. Secondly, if we cannot determine who is saved in their present state or not, then why are we told in the scriptures that we can? To say we cannot, is in fact, unscriptural, and will only lead one to follow a blind leader, a wolf in sheeps clothing, hireling, or the ministers of Satan who can come as ministers of righteousness. God has given us ways to know, and we are commanded to test them. THis I have done and continue to do. Have you?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am not getting back into this again.
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

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    Michelle,
    I have always disagreed with you on the KJVO stance. I thought I would never agree with you on anything.Then wonder of wonders I found myself agreeng with you on 4 different matters.
    I have no doubt as to your sincerity, however it is up to God to decide who is saved and who is not. Now it is up to you to decide who you wish to fellowship with or support or not,but you don't get to decide who is saved and who is'nt.
     
  10. Phillip

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    Hi, Plain old BILL, gotcha right this time, didn't I? :eek: :D :D [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  11. Phillip

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    This was NOT meant to be a continuation of the soap opera. Just an outside look at it. If this starts getting ridiculous, admins and moderators have my BLESSINGS to shut it down!
     
  12. Phillip

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    Think of this as a brief "critics" review of the soap-opera. Not a "remake" or attempt to start another season of a soap-opera that lost it ratings. :D
     
  13. Plain Old Bill

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    Way to go Phil!
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    Oh, I hate this stupid game. Why start it all over.

    But (Bob asks) WHERE does Scripture say we can determine the salvation of an individual?

    By their fruit (actions) we can know them and what kind of actions they do. But can we tell their soul's relation with God by their actions?

    If that were so, I would say that spreading the vile her**y of KJVonly would be clear indication that a person was not born again.

    How does that feel? Of course, you would object. Why? I cannot know your heart. You might truly be "born again" and just terribly confused in doctrine.

    Give people a break and QUIT JUDGING FALSELY
     
  15. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am glad that you said that instead of me since you are on the adminstrative staff ;) .
     
  16. Phillip

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    Moderators, at least wait until Dr. Bob gets an answer before you close this, please. [​IMG]
     
  17. Watchman

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    Roger,agreed. As I said, if one is a son of God, God will deal with that one as a son. Whether that is Graham, Colson, Van Empe or whoever.

    [ November 19, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Watchman ]
     
  18. Bro Tony

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    It was not AVL1984 also known as Tony, It was me Bro Tony who stated, and you did, that Billy Graham and the President were not saved. You may have called them sheep in wolves clothing, but you crossed the line in stating they were not saved--reread your post. As Dr Bob said stop the judging it is not your place.

    Bro Tony who is not AVL1984, but thank you for the compliment to my wonderful brother in Christ.
     
  19. Phillip

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    Phillip:
    Sooooo, in your opinion, if someone sins, they never were saved? You sure are judgemental. Do you think Billy Graham is saved?

    Michelle:

    No, based upon his fruits, 'he is not yet saved.' He talks the talk but only part of it, but does not walk the walk, only walks part of it. He sends souls to the dens of wolves and he also yolks himself and others with unbelievers - can two walk together unless they be agreed?. This is not a good fruit, but a very bad one.

    :cool:
     
  20. AVL1984

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    michelle:

    posted November 19, 2004 12:33 PM
    "First of all, I was accused by AVL1984 of saying Billy Graham and the President were not saved"

    AVL1984: Michelle, you said that Billy Graham was a wolf in sheeps clothing implying he wasn't saved. I believe you also stated that he wasn't, but I'll recheck to make sure. I know for a fact that you stated the President wasn't. Don't drag me back into your dirty little arguments with someone else. Typical of you to push the blame


    Michelle:

    "by calling them for what they are: wolves in sheeps clothing."

    AVL1984: How nice of you to be able to call people this. With some of your responses towards other people, you should really look in the mirror long and hard. You might find YOU have a snout instead of wool.

    Michelle:


    "Secondly, if we cannot determine who is saved in their present state or not, then why are we told in the scriptures that we can? To say we cannot, is in fact, unscriptural,"

    AVL1984: Please prove this, Michelle. I don't think you or anyone else knows the hearts of anybody else and whether or not they are saved. You DO NOT judge righteously, but rather Pharisaically to say the least, and I am not the only one who's tired of your pompous, self righteous attitude.

    Michelle:

    "and will only lead one to follow a blind leader, a wolf in sheeps clothing, hireling, or the ministers of Satan who can come as ministers of righteousness."

    AVL1984: Sort of like a blind one following a blind one in the building of a doctrine that can't be proven scripturally, and who's followers continue to make others doubt their relationship with Christ because of their divisiveness???? You know what I'm talking about.

    Michelle:

    "God has given us ways to know, and we are commanded to test them."

    AVL1984: Really? Where are these special commands that give us the full details of how to judge everyone's salvation, heart and spirit in the stead of God?

    Michelle:

    "THis I have done and continue to do. Have you?"

    AVL1984: What you have continued to do is defame brothers and sisters in the Lord, making yourself God in God's stead, judging others harshly, but not liking it when others judge you harshly because of your attitude, claiming they are slandering you and whining.

    Michelle:
    "love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle"

    This really should be changed, Michelle, because you have no love in your heart for anyone but yourself. You've attacked many here, moderators and administrators included. You've attacked me also by PM and in threads. You should be ashamed of yourself.
     

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