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It Will Cost You Everything

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, Nov 20, 2010.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    So they will. Read the context of that passage. Jesus was speaking of false teachers. He said: You shall know them by their fruits--false doctrine. Throughout that entire portion of the chapter he is emphasizing one to beware of false teachers coming with false doctrine.
    They come in sheep's clothing, and they also call Jesus Lord. Think "Benny Hinn." He's the one who teaches that there are nine persons in the trinity--three in each person. One cannot be saved and believe the strange doctrine he believes, and yet he calls Christ Lord. He is a false teacher.

    Those teaching Lordship salvation are also false teachers.
    They are teaching a works-based salvation. They teach that you must do all these things before you are even saved. Who has sold their house and forsaken all that they have in order to be saved??
    I know of no one. Such is false teaching.
     
    #41 DHK, Nov 22, 2010
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    This about sums it up (and disproves pre-faith regeneration at the same time)

    John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

    Human order:
    Hear (understand)
    Believe (faith)
    Receive eternal life (passed from death to life...regeneration) and not judged (justification)
     
    #42 webdog, Nov 22, 2010
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    DHK.....ok here is what you do. Hop a plane to Newark NJ & rent a car. Go North west towards Scranton & I will meet you at a hotel lobby in Dover.... we will have a cup of tea & discuss it. Just let me know the day your comming in. :tongue3:
     
    #43 Earth Wind and Fire, Nov 22, 2010
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Now if I have forsaken all that I had, and perhaps I have, how would I be able to do that?
    But if you haven't forsaken all that you have you would have no problem traveling.
    On another, and very important point, if I have forsaken all that I have as commanded in Luke 14:33 it is because Jesus said if you do not then you cannot be my disciple. He didn't use the word believer or saved. He said disciple. Even if I had not forsaken all that I have, I would still be a believer in Christ for the very reason that I put my faith in his shed blood, his atoning work on the cross, and for no other reason than that.

    BTW, in spite of what my profile says, I forsook my family and all that I have in Canada and am posting from another nation. By plane it took me over 25 hours to get here. And though I can't tell you where I am, I have left all behind.
     
    #44 DHK, Nov 22, 2010
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    But he that doeth the truth cometh to the light, that his works may be made manifest, that they have been wrought in God. Jn 3:21

    No webdog, you ain't looking at this correctly; the one that believes has eternal life already:

    He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36

    .....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24

    ... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47

    The very passage you use as your proof is one that proves your premise to be wrong.
     
    #45 kyredneck, Nov 22, 2010
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Let me ask those believe that sinners get saved by accepting Jesus as Saviour and who stand against accepting Jesus as Lord. If sinners can be saved without turning to Jesus as their Lord and Master then is God offering salvation to people even while they remain in rebellion? Can a sinner be saved without turning from rebellion as long as they recognize Jesus as Saviour for their sins?
     
    #46 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Please give your testimony of salvation. How were you saved?
     
    #47 DHK, Nov 23, 2010
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Wow Mitch...what a hero you are...all that forsaken stuff too...Impressive...ROFL.... Guess you will have to wait to hear my testimony...Tee, he, he :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #48 Earth Wind and Fire, Nov 23, 2010
  9. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Thank you for asking. Go to my web site it is at the bottom of the listings.
     
    #49 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2010
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    While the message in the OP stirs my heart and makes me want to shout AMEN, for I seldom hear true spiritual messages today, I think that I would say that I believe the message in principle and not literally. Here is what I mean. At the moment that a person comes to Christ for salvation they must come with all of their heart that they know of. The next day after salvation is a new day and they are coming with more then yesterday and the day after more and so on. Not only is our life one in process but our faith and repentance is also. Scripture says it this way;
    2Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. I am sure that you are aware that this passage in the Greek reads a little different when the tenses are rendered in. It should read "old things are passed away and are passing away and all things are new and becoming new." While repentance is a state we enter into, and never leave once we are saved, and while it is absolute as to our understanding at salvation it is never finished or complete. We are in a state of growing our faith and repentance at all walks of life.
    So what am I saying, it all depends on the person hearing. One may be much in learning of what the scriptures say and that person has to literally come in that knowledge and surrender in all that is understood. Another may only come to realize that they are a sinner and want forgiveness and come in surrender, but does not understand all that their surrender will encompass. This person is still totally surrendered, but it is to all that they understand, not to all their is. Both have the same spirit (heart) of repentance (surrender), but only one is knowledgably enough to its literalness of that surrender, but both get saved. The unlearned is surrendering as much as the learned, in spirit, but in practice may not know all that is involved, however in time as the word of God is given to them they will turn over literally the things that have already been surrendered in spirit because of a seeking and repentant heart.
    Both are receiving Jesus as Lord and Master (not simply Saviour), with all their heart, but one does not understand the particulars as much as the other, and in fact neither do to perfection. So in their heart each is surrendering all that they are, in spirit, not fully understanding what all that surrender encompasses. As they grow in Christ the fruit will be seen as their minds are given understanding to the true nature of what is required of surrender.
    This is not to suggest that a person can be saved and remain in the practice of sin as scripture makes it clear that such is impossible. 1John 3. However what constitutes sin is not always understood,(I am speaking of the grey areas not what the scripture spells out) what is clear to one is not clear to another, but the truly redeemed will not only be open to the truth, but they will also have a heart that seeks truth even if it means that they have to give up that which is dear to them in this life. (father, mother, brother, sister, money, or what ever)
    So does a person have to surrender all at the moment of salvation. Yes, all that they understand. They are surrendering themselves without limitation in their heart placing themselves under God in Christ, for without such rebellion in spirit remains and the person is not saved. When one is in a state of repentance they cannot also be in a state of rebellion and once we are saved we never retun to a spirit of rebellion.. So in regards to the message if someone has set under strong teaching for some time and knows all that God requires, then yes that person would have to surrender all that they understand as the message says, both in spirit and with understanding while the un-learned surrenders all in spirit and as understanding grows their surrender is also seen in deed.
     
    #50 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2010
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Great testimony! Appreciate that.

    This is no different than any other person that I have seen come to the Lord. "I asked the Lord if he would accept such a sinner as I. He did."
    That is how all of us come to Christ--by faith. It is the only way.

    Lordship salvation does not teach that. It teaches legalism, i.e. adding to salvation works--the work of salvation plus the work of forsaking all that you have. If you do not do this latter work you cannot be saved. That is the teaching of Lordship salvation.

    Your testimony, like many others, describes:
    First, a sinful life, and then the knowledge of being a sinner.
    Second, conviction of sin in your life.
    Third, seeking the answer or being led to where to find that answer.
    Fourth, hearing the gospel and simply trusting Christ as your Saviour--that is salvation. You were justified at that point.
    Fifth, as you described, "daily, moment by moment, leading and guiding me." That is a process of sanctification. It is the growth of a believer in Christ. It has nothing to do whether Christ is "Lord of your life," or Lordship salvation.

    The willingness to do whatever Christ wants us to do regardless of what the circumstances may be ought to be there in everyone of us, and I think you agree with that. But many have to grow to that point. In the church at Corinth there were many carnal believers, but they were believers nevertheless.
     
    #51 DHK, Nov 23, 2010
  12. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    DHK I want to thank so much for telling how I got saved. You must have nail prints in your hands or at least certainly some scars on your back or perhaps you just had a virgin bith, but no matter praise your holy name.
     
    #52 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
  13. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I mean no offense brother. I simply quoted you and showed you how different your testimony is from the teaching of "Lordship Salvation."
     
    #53 DHK, Nov 23, 2010
  14. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    No offense my lord. I praise your name as you know all things and are never wrong.
     
    #54 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I see freeatlast is an idolater as well.
     
    #55 webdog, Nov 23, 2010
  16. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I wouldn't expect you to say anything different :)

    You cannot have eternal life prior to believing. That's salvation minus faith and unbiblical. Faith comes by hearing...we are saved through faith...He who hears and believes...

    There is an obvious pattern that is actually so simple a child can understand. You understand, you believe, you are saved. That's it. It's not you are saved, you understand, you believe.
     
    #56 webdog, Nov 23, 2010
  17. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Let's keep the "personal" agenda out of this and stay on topic or this thread will be closed. :(
     
    #57 Dr. Bob, Nov 23, 2010
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I am wrong many times, but it is doubtful that I am wrong here.
    Here are some sites for you to check out:

    http://www.dividedbytruth.org/BTP/lssapotg/lssapotg_main.htm

    http://www.lovethetruth.com/false_doctrine/lordship.htm

    http://www.soulwinning.info/fd/lordship_salvation/spurgeon.htm

    http://www.godlovespeople.com/deceptions/toxic_waters.htm

    Either salvation is by grace through faith, or it is by works.
    Which one?
     
    #58 DHK, Nov 23, 2010
  19. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Now lord you need to stop doubting yourself. I know that as lord you can never be wrong. And in this case if you say that someone can be saved and remain in rebellion against God that certainly must be true, because you are lord. I praise you for giving such a great gospel message. Just believe and trust that Jesus is your Saviour and we are saved and we can continue to live as we want. You are so gracious lord. Thank you for not making us turn to God to be saved and I praise you lord.
     
    #59 freeatlast, Nov 23, 2010
  20. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Freeatlast...

    Brother, I read your testimony. You certainly went through a LOT, and I praise God that you came to your senses and embraced Christ.

    But please...stop with your comments directed towards DHK. Its not befitting a child of God to use sarcasim in the mammer you are using it.

    Please just stop.
     
    #60 Alive in Christ, Nov 23, 2010
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