It's all a scam

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Robert Snow, Aug 10, 2011.

  1. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow
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    Heavensdad made the following statement in another thread:

    I am interested in how accurate this statement is. I have heard others say it and now it is posted here.

    Could this actually be done?
     
  2. freeatlast

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    Yes and no. To say the federal reserve is private is miss-leading even though there was a court case where the court declared the federal reserve private. http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/frcourt.html It is somewhat like saying the US postal service is private. Both are true, but they both are accountable to the government at some point as those in charge report to the government and are appointed by the government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System

    As to getting rid of 2/3 of the debt by declaring the federal reserve is to take a hike just will not work. That means we have to wipe out 2/3 of the debt we owe and that alone would bring internal riots when the people lose their savings, SS is cut off and done away with, medical and economical services for the poor and old are stopped, and the markets crash bringing world economic destruction. It is like saving the patients leg and he dies one week later of gangrene.

    If there was a way to first pay down the debt, but there is not, and then tell the fed to take a hike that might work IF we could come up with a standard to back the dollar, but declaring to the feds to take a hike and writing off the debt would be totally disastrous. Not only that it is highly questionable that the courts would permit the US telling the Feds to take a hike as the system is now a mix of private and governmental mish mash. At minimum there would be years of litigation and we no longer have the time for such. Perhaps under some kind of marshal law disbanding the courts but that would mean a government take over and then we lose the rest of our freedoms.
     
    #2 freeatlast, Aug 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2011
  3. InTheLight

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    No. If we tried this, we'd never be able to sell another Treasury bond, bill, or note to anyone in the world.
     
  4. StefanM

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    Correct. It would be willful default.
     
  5. Havensdad

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    Guys, you simply do not understand how the system works.

    First of all, Freeatlast is wrong. The Fed is NOT accountable to the government. Did none of you watch, when Bernake was at the Senate hearing regarding the Fed giving half a trillion dollars to overseas entities, and one of the Senators said, "Tell us who these people are?" and then Bernake said, "No." He then proceeded to tell the U.S. Senate that the Federal Reserve was a private entity, and was not under the jurisdiction of the U.S. government.
    He then quoted the 1913 Federal Reserve Act, which makes the Fed a sovereign institution.

    Secondly, NO, the government would not collapse, nor would it "default." You are simply not understanding the way the system works. Reclaiming Americas money from the Fed would not do anything to our Credit rating (except maybe help it), it would not cause a default on any bond or treasury, nor would it cause any drop in retirement accounts. What it WOULD do, is wipe out about two thirds of our debt, which is not owed to individuals, bond payees, or other countries, but to very rich bankers, who invented the money out of thin air in the first place...something our treasury department SHOULD have been doing all along.
     
  6. exscentric

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    "we'd never be able to sell another Treasury bond, bill, or note to anyone in the world."

    Hummm, they would have to live within their income!
     
  7. freeatlast

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    Another fantasy :laugh:
    let me ask you a serious question. Do you support Ron Paul?
     
    #7 freeatlast, Aug 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2011
  8. Havensdad

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    I suggest you do some reading, instead of just listening to what the government shills tell you.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    I am not suggesting that the Federal reserve should be in place. I am saying that because we have allowed it to get such a grip into our system there is nothing that can be done to correct the problems we are now having without doing the very thing the Federal reserve is doing because of our corrupt and irresponsible leaders.
    If the executive order of JFK had been carried out then perhaps we would have been able to get out of this mess but now it is too late. We will sink because of the activities of the Feds and we would sink if we try and fix it your way. The end result is sinking. Our dollar would be worthless around the world if we just claim we will not pay.
     
  10. Havensdad

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    Why would the dollar be worthless? The money that I am speaking of is not backing bonds, treasuries, or any accounts. The money is already in the market, so its not like we are printing more money. There is no LOGICAL reason why the dollar would fall.

    Besides, the dollar is going to start hyper-inflating soon anyway. It is already undergoing 20 percent inflation...might as well do something so that it does not happen again!
     
  11. InTheLight

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    The Fed is accountable to Congress and the President. The President appoints the governors of the Fed which are subject to Congressional approval. Any Fed governor may be fired by the President at any moment. Also, the Fed, by U.S. law must make at least quarterly reports to Congress and appear before congressional committees. Finally, the Fed does not charge interest.
     
  12. freeatlast

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    You keep trying to make it sound so simple when it is not. Our infrastructure is no longer able to support any radical change you are proposing. Even if you just wipe off the books certain areas of the debt it will not fix the problem as we have debt that is real. So Yes there is every reason for the dollar to fail. Also you want to wipe out SS, Medicare, Medicaid, bring the troops home and on and on. Where are these people going to work, get medical assistance, live and on and on? Your plan will not work as we have went too far.
     
  13. freeatlast

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    YES! The problem is thta the congress and the Presidents have been in bed with the feds. Now it has went so far they cannot get out without destroying the economy and the nation which is going to happen anyway in the near future.
     
  14. Havensdad

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    This thread is not really about any of those issues. It is about the Fed. But no one needs jobs, because none of these measures would cost jobs. Bringing troops home does not mean firing them. Taking SS and Medicare away from wealthy individuals does not mean they need a job, nor that they cannot get medical assistance. They are wealthy...they can afford to buy their own.

    Whether or not it will work perfectly is a non-issue. Doing nothing is STUPID. Kicking the can down the road is ALSO stupid. We need to do these things, even if it is painful, because all of the doomsday stuff you paint (IF you are right, which I don't believe you are), is going to happen regardless. All we can do is restructure the system so it does not happen again.
     
  15. Havensdad

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    And yet the Fed Chairman told the congress and president to go milk a motorcycle, that they were not his boss.

    The quarterly reports are a joke. The Fed has never undergone an open books audit. Congressional committees are also a joke, for as Bernanke said, they are a sovereign institution and are not required to answer any questions.

    Finally, the Fed does not need to charge interest. They are INVENTING money from nothing, and then forcing the U.S. government to borrow it from them. Who needs interest when you get money for nothing? We make a hundreds of billions of dollar payment every year to this private bank, for doing NOTHING.
     
  16. freeatlast

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    The reason it is a joke is because the feds chairman now knows nothing can be done to stop them without destroying the nation. You are arguing apple and oranges. If it had been disband years ago it might have worked, but today it is too late. We will default and fall as the nation we are no matter what we do. The only thing is it today by following your prescription or some time in the near future.
    I can assure you of this. We will sink.
     
  17. Havensdad

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    Whether or not that is true, these steps still need to be taken. Otherwise things will never get better.
     
  18. freeatlast

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    Well I at least agree that something needs to be done even if it brings us down. I am for doing much of what you suggest. My argument is it will still destroy us, not fix things. My point is and has been we are going to fail so get ready for it whether it happenes today, tomorrow, next week or in the near future.
     
    #18 freeatlast, Aug 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2011
  19. InTheLight

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    The Fed is audited and the Fed rebates almost all of the interest earnings they make to the U.S. government. And it's less than "hundreds of billions of dollars."

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- The Federal Reserve made $82 billion in income in 2010, the central bank said Tuesday.

    The Fed turns over most of its profits to Treasury in weekly remittances from the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks to the government.

    In 2010, the Fed sent almost all of its profit -- $79 billion -- to Treasury, a $32 billion increase from the amount transferred in 2009.

    The increase in income was driven primarily by $24 billion in interest earnings on federal agency and mortgage backed security holdings.

    Audited by Deloitte & Touche, the Fed's annual statement reveals the bank holds assets of $2.4 trillion.

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/22/news/economy/federal_reserve_financials/
     
  20. InTheLight

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    I sure would like to see that. Do you have a link?

    I suspect the reason he didn't name who got the money because it would identify which banks are weak and thus cause panic and a run on deposits.
     

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