It's not a seperate issue at all!

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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    No it's not a seperate issue. They lied and used fearmongering propaganda to get congress and the people behind their already predetermined overt regime change and Pax Americana policy now masqeurading as the "war on terror".

    Our warriors do deserve the truth and so do the people but they'll never get it from Govcorp Inc., or from people who can't be bothered to take a minute from flag waving do alittle easy research to find it!
     
  2. billwald

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    War has never been declared against Iraq or Afganistan therefore there is no "legal" war.
     
  3. poncho

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    They aren't "wars" at all, they're hostile take overs carried out by Govcorp Inc.
     
    #3 poncho, Apr 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2007
  4. Dragoon68

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    War has been "declared" by Congress as evidenced by its joint resolution. The resolution far exceeds the level of detail provided in earlier times when war was "declared". It authorized the actions the President has taken. It still stands. Any time the Congress has the courage and the will to change it they can proceed to do so. The war is completely legal and completely just.
     
  5. Dragoon68

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    Yes we all do deserve the truth and not the lies that continue to be spread by the antiwar people. It would, indeed, be good for people to do even just a little bit of research instead of swallowing all the wild accusations such as those about "Govcorp", "Halliburton", "Bush lied", etc. They could start by carefully reading the resolution their own Congress authored in response. It would be good if we good, for once in modern times, actually rally under the legitmate causes repsented by our flag rather than tearing ourselves apart with words and deeds that only serve to help those that stand against us. It would be good if we could actually respect the sacrifices and accomplishments of those we send to fight enough to validate the reasons for which we send them. While we predict failure, demand withdrawal, and claim it's all illegal they are busy engaged in the business at hand and putting their all into it. As a hold, I'll bet that despise the counterproductive talk and acts back home as much as I did the same kind of conduct 35 to 40 years ago. I probably wouldn't be around to ask them about it in another three decades but I'm fairly sure their sentiments will be much the same.
     
  6. Terry_Herrington

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    Since this war was based on lies told the American people by President Bush, the war is illegal, plain and simple!
     
  7. poncho

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    Just "wars" don't need chicken hawk posers to lie to congress and the people to get predetermined plans and policies approved. Congress and the executive was sold to Govcorp Inc. a long time ago, and the military along with them. All the flag waving and making of emotional patriotic pleas in the world isn't anymore able to change that simple unvarnished fact than all the alchemists in the world were able to change lead into gold.
     
    #7 poncho, Apr 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 17, 2007
  8. Alcott

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    Quote the code that says a war in which we are involved is illegal if the president lied.
     
  9. Dragoon68

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    That was well crafted but, fortunately, still completely wrong. The problem we face is not "emotional patriotic pleas" but, rather, empty and rabid claims that the whole war is based on lies, fabrications, predetermined plans, a sold out Congress, Govcorp - whatever that is, etc. Many people actually understand the truth and reason behind the patriotic pleas and, conversely, they also see where the real lying is being done. Most are just not inclined to make too much noise about it.
     
  10. Dragoon68

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    No, plain and simple, Congress authorized the President to take the action he has taken as evidenced by a comprehensive joint resolution all done according to the rule of law. It is, however, a lie to say the war is illegal when it's most certainly not.
     
  11. Rufus_1611

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    Section 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States

    "If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

    If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for
    such misdemeanor."​
     
  12. Dragoon68

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    This is absolutely ridiculous! It has nothing to do with the lawful decision making process to authorize the war which has been followed to the letter and the intent.
     
  13. Petra-O IX

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    It does if it's intent was to defraud the United States. Are you suggesting that there are certain people who are above the law?
     
  14. Rooselk

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    The war was illegal under international law. And while I think it is wrong to compare the Bush administration to the Nazi's, it is nonetheless true that Bush's "pre-emptive war" doctrine was last used by Hitler when he started World War II.

    Every single reason given to by the administration to justify this war has turned out not to be true. War should always be a measure of last resort, not as in this instance a war of choice. Since a needless war is an unjust war, the war in Iraq is by every measure unjust. That Christians could support this needless slaughter, much less applaud it, truly sickens me.
     
  15. Salty

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    So, does that mean that WWII was illegal since Pres Roosevelt "lied" by not telling the Americian people that the govt knew about the Pearl Harbor bombing in advance?

    Salty

    PS, BTW, declaring war against Germany was illegal, as they had not attacked us
     
  16. Rooselk

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    First of all, it's a lie that FDR "knew" that Pearl Harbor was going to attacked and remained silent in order to get the US in World War II. This is nothing more than an old right wing slander that is akin to the outrageous charge that Bush knew and/or participated in the attacks of 9/11.

    As for the Nazi's, Germany declared war on the US shortly after the US declared war on Japan. The war against Germany therefore was in no way illegal.
     
  17. 2 Timothy2:1-4

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    So long as you are willing to concede that the Dems told the same lies long before Bush came to office then you are being consistant.
     
  18. poncho

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    Overlooking and/or flat out denial of easily obtainable information isn't exactly being honest Dragoon. It may help people feel better about choices they've made but it isn't honest and it does more harm to this country than good by letting those responsible for causing the most harm off the hook. Some may even call it complicity. It's well known that the neocons including Dick Cheney and Jeb Bush were promoting Pax Americana and overt regime change long before George W. Bush Rumsfeld and Cheney lied straight faced to congress and the American people in order to impliment their long held plans and ambitions. They even admitted that Saddam Hussein was just the "immediate justification" for a wider role in middle eastern affairs. (privitisation, hostile multinational corporate takeover, take your pick, that's the "role" they were talking about) That's on page 14 of Rebuilding America's Defenses if you wish to overlook it, don't read that page. The Clean Break Strategy goes so far as to spell out how the neocons planned to "anticipate, manage and constrain" (their words) our, meaning American's reactions. Then there are the Downing Street Memos among other documents when put together reads deliberate subterfuge. Hey, they wrote em I read em because 99 percent of the people won't or could care less so long as they can keep their feel good fantasies that our "leaders" have our best interests at heart..and "we" get to kick evildoers butts. I don't know how much plainer it has to become before the 30 percenters finally get the picture. It isn't about protecting America's interests or defending the opressed, it isn't about making the world safe for democracy or spreading freedom it's about greed and wanton destruction in the quest for power and profit.
     
    #18 poncho, Apr 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2007
  19. poncho

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    And control!
     
  20. Hope of Glory

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    Umm... Are we all forgetting all the violations of UN sanctions that were committed by Iraq, but the former resident of the oval office (who was disbarred for his actions) did not have the fortitude to do the right thing?
     

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