J.R. Church

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by PilgrimPastor, Mar 6, 2009.

  1. PilgrimPastor

    PilgrimPastor
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    I came across a "Bible Prophecy in The News" broadcast this evening. Does anyone know anything about J.R. Church? What about the corresponding magazine?
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    He's been around for years. He is out of OKC and I watched him all the time when I was in high school. Back then he was going through the Psalms making a case for a 1988 rapture. He was convinced it was in the Psalms. Just your typical "prophecy expert" who has been wrong time and again but stilll manages to get an audience. I guess a new generation of suckers come around just in time for guys like him and Hal Lindsey to continue giving us their expert opinions.
     
    #2 Grasshopper, Mar 6, 2009
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  3. PilgrimPastor

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    That's the impression I got from him. He had a really interesting guest on his show who was promoting a documentary type of film about secret societies (Free Masons etc.) involvment with the founding of the U.S. I looked on line and saw his book about the "Secret Prophecies in the Psalms" and figured he belonged to the excessively "rapture ready" camp...
     
  4. Ed Edwards

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    I've been subscribing to PROPHECY IN THE NEWS since about 1988. J.R.Church is in some sickness need of some very heavy prayer. I solicit your prayers so his ministry can continue. He is having some first class radiation treatments following cancer surgery.

    Yes, there seems to be a correlation between some of the Psalms and the 20th century:

    1901 - 1
    1902- 2
    ...
    1999 - 99
    2000 - 100

    and this continues on into the 21st century:

    2001 - 101
    2002 - 102
    ...
    2049 - 149
    2050 - 150

    J.R. Church nor his staff has never SET A DATE for the pretribulation rapture nor the Second Coming of Jesus.

    J.R. Church and his staff seem to be among the most reasonable inspectors of the news and prophecy of the Bible.
     
  5. Marcia

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    Did Hal Lindsey ever give a date for the return of Christ?

    You know, just because some Christians talk about the rapture and believe in it does not make that a bad thing just because you are a preterist.
     
  6. PilgrimPastor

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    Is the magazine helpful and useful? I am thinking about subscribing but I have a limited time to read magazines unless they are actually helpful. I have been wanting to teach on prophecy more often; folks are concerned and curious when look at modern events.

    I was schooled at Liberty in a Dispensational Pre-Trib / Pre-Mill view and hold to it, though perhaps I don't focus on it as the heart of my theology as some do. The Cross is central and the point is that he is coming back, but the Bible does give us clues and insight and encouragment to be ready and watchful.
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    Well Ed, apparently you were not a viewer of his show in the late 70's and early 80's as I was. He was clearly pointing to a 1988 return of Christ according to his study in the Psalms. It seems now he has revised his theories since he was obviously wrong the first time. Like I said earlier, a new generation means changing the dates and selling more books.
     
  8. Grasshopper

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    You tell me:

    1.
    The Late Great Planet Earth: "The most important sign in Matthew has to be the restoration of the Jews to the land in the rebirth of Israel. Even the figure of speech ‘fig tree´ has been a historic symbol of national Israel. When the Jewish people, after nearly 2,000 years of exile, under relentless persecution, became a nation again on 14 May 1948 the ‘fig tree´ put forth its first leaves. Jesus said that this would indicate that He was ‘at the door,´ ready to return. Then He said, ‘Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place´ (Matthew 24:34, NASB). What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs—chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so.’2
    2 Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1970), 53–54.

    2.
    For Hal Lindsey, every news story is a sign that we are living in the "rapture generation." It wasn’t too long ago that he claimed in his wildly popular prophetic book The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) that the "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 would end sometime before 1988 (1948+40 years=1988). In an interview published in Christianity Today (April 15, 1977), Ward Gasque asked Lindsey: "But what if you’re wrong?" Lindsey replied: "Well, there’s just a split second’s difference between a hero and a bum. I didn’t ask to be a hero, but I guess I have become one in the Christian community. So I accept it. But if I’m wrong about this, I guess I’ll become a bum."

    http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-prophecies-of-daniel-why-they-dont-point-to-us/

    3.
    http://www.americanvision.org/mediafiles/does-the-bible-teach-a-pre-tribulational-rapture.pdf

    4.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429OIdIt3Lo



     
  9. Marcia

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    Well, thanks for the info on Lindsey. I really don't know much about him and I was asking sincerely. I didn't become a Christian until the very end of 1990 and knew zero about this stuff. I had no idea who Hal Lindsey was until about 3 yrs. after I was saved.
     
  10. MB

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    I find it interesting that you say he was pointing to 1988 but you yourself fail to mention the day or the hour which would complete the date. The Lord told us we wouldn't know the day or hour. He didn't say anything about the year, but he did say we could know when it is close. Personally I think it may be a lot closer than any of us may want to believe. There is no more prophecy that needs to happen for the rapture to happen. Is that close enough? It might not happen for another 500 years but I think it might happen tomorrow and that's how I live my life, as if it will. With out this expectation we think we have plenty of time. Five virgins thought the same and were lost.
    MB
     
  11. Grasshopper

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  12. MB

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  13. PilgrimPastor

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    I'm not sure that is the best way to interpret Jesus words in that passage; it was parabolic. The point is more consitent with the second half of your post...
     
  14. Marcia

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    I think saying no one knows the day or hour is a way of saying know one know when - day, hour or year. It doesn't mean we can know the year.
     
  15. Ed Edwards

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    I searched the web and proto-web (using four different philosopies of search engines). I never found where Lindsey said 1988.

    I do not considers statements like this to PREDICT 1988:

    if said in 1978 - "if not this year then probably before 1988"

    That is just a different way of saying SOON

    The Bible teaches SOON - but in God's terms, not yours or mine.

    I find it very similar to the conservation I'm having with GLOBAL WARMING deniers. One of their arguments they are so proud of is "in the 1970s" scientists said global cooling was the fear.

    Fact, a small minority of scientists 'in the 1970s said something about global cooling. Some predicted another Ice Age in the next 10,000 to 40,000 years not in the next 10 to 40 years.

    I was studying the problem from several angles in the 1970s (in the early 1970s I was a high school math teacher, in the mid 1970s I was getting an Engineering Degree. I live in Oklahoma where time is money and time and money are oil and oil is King. When will half the World Oil be used up? Back then the best answer was about 2000 (now the best answer is about 2012). And the other question was 'what all on earth gets messed up if you use half the oil in the world from 1940-2000 (in 60 years)? Then as now, what will happen is that burning half the oil will cause run-away global warming. Folks, we need to reprogram our infrastructure to talk to each over over the internet and not visit with each other so much. I go through housing addition after housing addition (on google map, not in an oil-burning vehicle) and there are no sidewalks - not prevision for walking around the neighborhood. But there are streets - streets where you can drive to huge commercial & industrial centers where the sidewalks are just part of the parking lots.

    J.R. Church's organization makes a much better mix of the News and the Bible than even the BB (baptaist board). A person would be better off reading J.R. Church's publication than wasting time on this board.

    And that is my opinion. The following are NOT opinions:

    1. The Lord is coming back SOON.

    2. Our current world activities of everybody going to-and-fro in oil-driven vehicles is going to destroy the surface of the planet with global warming and polution.

    3. We do NOT have any right to use the Oil on the surface of the Earth in 100 years and let the Millinnial Messanic Kingdom figure out how to power stuff - they need at least 1,000 years worth.

    So get your opinions and FACTS straight.
    J.R. Church does. Thank you.
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    Amen, Sister Marcia -- you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

    not knowing the day means not knowing the time
    not knowing the hour means not knowing the time
    not knowing the year means not knowing the time

    But then J.R. Church did not say 1988.

    Wisenaught, a pastor from Arkansas said WW3 would start sometime between 23 Sept 1988 and 25 Sept 1988. (on 25 Sept 1988 was my 55th birthday) fortunately I did not read my copy of his book "88 Reasons why I think the Lord will return in 1988 " (or something like that) until about 1990 else I'd have had my birthday on 22 Sept :)
     
  17. MB

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    The Bible says we can know the season because of the signs, a season is a lot less time than a whole year. How about that?.
    Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
    MB
     
    #17 MB, Mar 9, 2009
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  18. Marcia

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    Yes, but I do not think Jesus is meaning a season literally but in the sense of seeing some things come to pass indicating the end. This still does not mean we can know the year.

    We have been near Jesus coming back since His ascension. So we still don't know the year - could be another 2,000 years.
     
  19. Grasshopper

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    Ed you didn't have to search the web, just spend 3 minutes reading what has been posted. Here is what I posted of Lindseys writings:

    It wasn’t too long ago that he claimed in his wildly popular prophetic book The Late Great Planet Earth (1970) that the "this generation" of Matthew 24:34 would end sometime before 1988 (1948+40 years=1988)


    "The most important sign in Matthew has to be the restoration of the Jews to the land in the rebirth of Israel. Even the figure of speech ‘fig tree´ has been a historic symbol of national Israel. When the Jewish people, after nearly 2,000 years of exile, under relentless persecution, became a nation again on 14 May 1948 the ‘fig tree´ put forth its first leaves. Jesus said that this would indicate that He was ‘at the door,´ ready to return. Then He said, ‘Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place´ (Matthew 24:34, NASB). What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs—chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place. Many scholars who have studied Bible prophecy all their lives believe that this is so

    No use that math education and figure it out.




    Says who? Dispies? Are we to also ignore and render meaningless the words shortly, near and " at hand"?


    Yet you couldn't put Lindsey's statments together and come up with 1988?


    This is why I usually ignore you incomprehensible posts. Off subject ramblings. Focus Ed.:BangHead:

    Yes, listen to the man who found in the Psalms a 1988 coming of Christ.

    Of course "soon" means nothing to us becuse God speaks in code only JR Church, Hal Lindsey and Ed can interpret.

    Ed=Al Gore


    I can only hope you are attempting humor. Never know with dispies.


    Now that is funny.:laugh:
     
  20. J.D.

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    If nobody knows the day, hour, month, year, of even the century of His coming, how can they know it is "soon"?
     

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