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James 2:18

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Jesus is Lord, Jan 29, 2004.

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  1. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord New Member

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    "...Shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18 KJV)

    I have a German Version of the Bible which says that the TR reads:
    "...Show me your faith by your works, and I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18 SV2000)

    So the KJV follows the MT, not the TR.

    Now my question is... do you see any sense in the TR reading?
     
    #1 Jesus is Lord, Jan 29, 2004
  2. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    Speculation on my part, but the KJV seems to say (rightly, in my view), that there were some who had faith, but they were not "practicing what they preached", that is, they were not acting out their alleged faith. My favorite version agrees ;) , "But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."(NKJV). Perhaps James is saying where he writes, "Show me your faith without your works", he's saying that they're demonstrating their faith, by not working, hence it is not true faith. I'm not dogmatic about this, it's just my "take". :D
     
    #2 Pastor KevinR, Jan 29, 2004
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I can show you my faith by my LACK of works:

    I'm not circumcised, I don't keep the Seventh Day, I don't keep the dietary Law of Moses, etc...

    This is my proof that I am trusting Christ and not Moses.

    HankD
     
    #3 HankD, Jan 29, 2004
  4. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    Yes, I can show you my faith by my LACK of works:

    I'm not circumcised, I don't keep the Seventh Day, I don't keep the dietary Law of Moses, etc...

    This is my proof that I am trusting Christ and not Moses.

    HankD     </font>[/QUOTE]How is that proof? I have an atheist friend that is not circumcised, doesn't keep the Seventh Day, doesn't keep the dietary Law of Moses, etc. either.

    Pastor KevinR, I agree with those statements. I think James is saying that "faith without works is dead". [​IMG]
     
    #4 BrianT, Jan 29, 2004
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Except that has nothing to do with what James is saying. Stephanus of 1550 had "ek" for both phrases (meaning "by"). Scrivener's 1894 has xoris (apart from or without) which is what it should be.
     
    #5 Pastor Larry, Jan 29, 2004
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OK I should have said I can demonstrate my faith by my lack of "moses" type works when I keep His (Christ') commandments, "love one another" as opposed to don't touch, eat, etc...

    HankD
     
    #6 HankD, Jan 29, 2004
  7. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    If you notice the Textus Receptus is much longer than the UBS4 or NA27 text. It is the text with a number of textual variants added.

    In this case I think the RSV does the best job of translation, "But some one will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith."

    The verb is in the future tense, "But some will..."
     
    #7 gb93433, Jan 29, 2004
  8. Pastor KevinR

    Pastor KevinR New Member

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    Hank, Galatians addresses what you bring up...
     
    #8 Pastor KevinR, Jan 29, 2004
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