James 5:19-20

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Nicholas25, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Nicholas25

    Nicholas25
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    My brothers, if any among you stays from the truth, and someone turns him back, he should know that whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his life from death and cover a multitude of sins.
    (Holman Christian Standard Bible-HCSB)

    If we look at this verse from an unconditional eternal security (once in grace, always in grace) perspective, how do you see these verses? Do these two verses put a dent in the OSAS doctrine, because it would be easy to see how someone could see these verses to be talking about someone who has left the truth (Jesus), and is on danger of missing heaven. Thanks.
     
  2. Amy.G

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    I think this passage is referring to physical death, not spiritual. James is speaking to the brethren, meaning they are saved. The NT speaks of several cases in which believers died prematurely because of certain sins, Acts 5 and 1 Cor. 11:30 for example.
     
  3. saturneptune

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    I agree with you. A much harder set of verses that I had a time with for a while on this subject was Hebrews 6:4-6.
     
  4. Amy.G

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    Yes, that is a very difficult passage.
     
  5. Steven2006

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    I do believe that this is talking about eternal life or death, not physical. However I don't believe that it is describing a person that was saved and then lost their salvation, but rather one who went through the motions for awhile and then turned his or her back on the truth and returned to his/her old ways. That person is as lost as he ever was, but now it has become apparent to us.
     
  6. Zenas

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    This passage is absolute proof that salvation, once obtained, can be lost. Here is the NASB rendition:
    Note that it says "save a soul from death," not save a life from death. The KJV and the RSV also render this as "save a soul from death." James is talking about someone who is bound for Hell and then is turned around and saved through the influence of another.

    The passage does not refer to those who were never saved. James says, "Bretheren (fellow Christians), if any of you do err from the truth (having held to the truth at one time but now having departed from it)." He is clearly speaking of Christians who have fallen away, i.e., lost their salvation and are headed for Hell, but are rescued through the influence of Christian brothers.

    The passage is straighforward and contains no ambiguity. Anyone who says it doesn't stand for the doctrine of falling from grace is engaging in wishful thinking and sophistry.
     
  7. Amy.G

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    Well that sounds possible until you read Hebrews 6.

    Hbr 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    Hbr 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.


    If one falls away they cannot be restored and cannot be saved from spiritual death.
     
  8. Steven2006

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    Actually, the NASB correctly translates it this way:

    NASB - Jam 5:19 - "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,"


    This person was among them, but not saved.
     
  9. Jim1999

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    In this passage, as in Hebrews 6, one cannot ignore the "if" introduction to a conditional clause. This whole statement is the same as saying, What if Joe comes to house, we can tell him not to stay.....If Joe comes, not that he has or will, but if. A clear supposition.

    If this could happen so and so will be the results.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. Zenas

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    Steven, you're right. I was quoting the KJV and don't know how I got them mixed up. But I have to stand by my first statement. A person cannot stray from the truth unless he first be in the truth. These are once saved people who have strayed from the truth.
     
  11. Zenas

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    "The things that are impossible with people are possible with God." Luke 18:27. Like the rich man who sought to know how to inherit eternal life, the apostate will rarely return and only with great difficulty. That is why Peter said, "For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them." 2 Peter 2:21. Yet James exhorts us to try to win these people back.
     
  12. Amy.G

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    Do you doubt the word of God? If they fall away (become unsaved) it is impossible to be saved again. That's what it says.
    You have taken the Luke verse out of context. It has nothing to do with being "re" saved.
     
  13. Jarthur001

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    "IF" is not in the Greek. This is not a IF then statement.

    Heb 6 / NKJV...
    For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
    and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame...............


    It is however in the james passage..(I Think)
     
  14. Jarthur001

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    Do you like to read? Here are a few links that will address this passage...


    Sam Storms..
    http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/james-519-20/
    OTHERS>>>

    John Mac..
    http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/59-34

    Geoff Thomas...
    http://www.alfredplacechurch.org.uk/Sermons/james27.htm
     
  15. kyredneck

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    On Hebrews 6:4-6

    “The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.” [C. Hodge]

    The letter to the Hebrews was written to counteract the very first heresy of the early Church, which was also the greatest temptation to the Jewish Christians; which was to return to the precepts of Judaism and the law of the Old Covenant. They were castigated and ostracized from the Jewish economy by family, friends, and countrymen for following Christ and leaving the Mosaic Covenant. It was a natural thing to miss those 'cucumbers and leeks' and 'turn back in their hearts to Egypt'; maybe life could go back to the way it used to be if they only just returned to that bondage that Christ had delivered them from.

    To return to this apostate ecclesiastical system that had just recently unjustly killed their Lord was to cast their lot with that very generation [Lu 17:25], and to truly 'tread under foot the Son of God', and 'count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing', and to 'do despite to the Spirit of grace' [Heb 10:29]. There was to be no repentance granted for such an act, only 'a certain fearful expectation of judgment' [Heb 10:27], which indeed came on that very generation [Acts 2:40; Lu 21:22,32]. It was 'impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame' [Heb 6:6].

    It is my opinion that the 'falling away' of this passage corresponds to the blasphemy of Mt 12:31, and could only be committed by those of 'that generation'.

    And..........just because they were not granted repentance in this time world does not mean they were to spend eternity burning in hell; like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, I happen to think they went to heaven 'spanked'.
     
    #15 kyredneck, Nov 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2009
  16. Jarthur001

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    I would disagree. :)

    It is true that we must understand what "falling away" means. But also what does "restore to repentance" mean? Some key points (bold) I want to point out in the text to help us.

    Read verse 7-12 because in it you will find the meaning of the verses above

    What ya think? :)
     
  17. kyredneck

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    That I have the correct perspective on the passage and that you and I will have to agree to disagree.:love2:
     

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