Jeremiah 8:8

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by franklinmonroe, Oct 9, 2006.

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  1. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe
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    How do ye say, We [are] wise, and the law of the LORD [is] with us?
    Lo, certainly in vain made he [it]; the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
    - King James Version 1611, 1769

    What does this verse mean? and does it relate to versions and translation?
    I really didn't understand it in the KJV, so here are some other translations...


    "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'?
    Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood. -NLJV

    `How can you say, "We are wise because we have the law of the Lord,"
    when your teachers have twisted it so badly? -NLT

    “ ‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,”
    when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? -NIV

    “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us’?
    But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. -ESV

    "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'?
    But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made {it} into a lie. -NASB

    "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'?
    But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. -RSV

    How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us?
    Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes. -YLT

    How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us?
    Behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes hath made it falsehood. -Darby
     
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    these might help:


     
  3. Ed Edwards

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    Franklinmonroe: //How do ye say, We [are] wise,
    and the law of the LORD [is] with us?
    Lo, certainly in vain made he [it];
    the pen of the scribes [is] in vain.
    - King James Version 1611, 1769//

    Actually not, more like the 1769 Edition
    than the 1611 Edition:

    Jer 8:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
    How doe ye say, We are wise,
    and the Law of the Lord is with vs?
    Loe, certainly, in vaine made he it,
    the pen of the scribes is in vaine.


    Jer 8:8 (KJV1769 Edition):
    How do ye say, We are wise,
    and the law of the LORD is with us?
    Lo, certainly in vain made he it;
    the pen of the scribes is in vain.


    Here is the whole quote with the Translator Footnote:

    Jeremiah 8:8 (KJV1769 Edition):
    How do ye say, We are wise,
    and the law of the LORD is with us?
    Lo, certainly in vain made
    F36 he it;
    the pen of the scribes is in vain.


    FOOTNOTES:
    F36: in vain made...: or, the false pen of the scribes worketh for falsehood

    so the MVs have what the KJV has.
    What is the problem?
     
  4. franklinmonroe

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    Forever Settled in Heaven, I appreciate your response. The CEV and Message seem to suggest that the scribes are ignorantly misinterpreting God's word for the people. However, I don't accept the paraphrazation of "scribes" as religious experts or teachers. Scribes, as I understand the term, were simply copyists or secretaries. Instructing would not be part of their role (unless "false pen" is an ancient Hebrew idiom that actually means something other than writing). My literal understanding of the verse leads me to think that the scribes have mishandled the text.

    Ed Edwards, this was not meant to be a KJVO-type comparison. However, to my mind the KJV does give an entirely different impression. "Vain" is usually defined as foolish or fruitless (lacking value or substance). So, my interpretation of the KJV is that the scribes work is simply of no effect, while the MVs seem to indicate deception and manipulation of the message. What does "the false pen of the scribes worketh for falsehood" mean? Is this an admission that there was corruption of the text?
     
  5. franklinmonroe

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    The 31 words at this verse are exactly the same in both the 1611 and 1769 (the only differences being four of spelling, and four of punctuation and capitalization). The KJV reference given in the OP also had exactly the same words (having only four within brackets).
     
  6. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    n that's where it might be worth looking up a Bible encyclopedia or something, rather than trusting a simple gloss of Greek words.
     
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Punctuation: [however} can make; a big, :1_grouphug: difference?
     
  8. franklinmonroe

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    Sometimes: a BIG difference! Other times, it is makes <no> difference to the reception of the message (as in this verse?); either way... the 'punctuation' is not inspired.
    :wavey:
     
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