Jesus – how much time does He get?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by qwerty, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. qwerty

    qwerty
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    Think about your church service.

    How much time does Jesus get?
    That is, how much time is spent focused only on Jesus?

    I attend a SBC, and the reality is, Jesus gets very little time.
    We don’t even start the service with prayer.
    The songs start, and sometimes Jesus gets sung about, and sometimes not.

    The preaching is usually not about Jesus. It is expository, one verse at a time, usually.
    So, we can go for weeks without hearing any message that is focused on Jesus.

    Is this the norm in your church?
    How much of the service should be focused on Jesus?
     
  2. Joey M

    Joey M
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most of the time in our church is devoted to Jesus. Though sometimes we sadly get side tracked. We start off with going to the prayer room, and praying for the service among other things, then have Sunday School, then start off the worship service with one song then prayer, then choir, then specail singing and then preaching. Usally that is the order with Jesus always the center, though we leave room for the Holy spirit to direct the service as He deems fit. Sometimes all we get done is testifiying on how good the Lord is. Sometimes the only thing that gets done is people coming down to the altar and leaving thier burdens thier, either way I think most of us give God the glory in it all.

    God speed.
     
  3. livin'intheword

    livin'intheword
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Think about your church service.
    How much time does Jesus get?
    That is, how much time is spent focused only on Jesus?

    I attend a SBC, and the reality is, Jesus gets very little time.
    We don’t even start the service with prayer.
    The songs start, and sometimes Jesus gets sung about, and sometimes not.

    The preaching is usually not about Jesus. It is expository, one verse at a time, usually.
    So, we can go for weeks without hearing any message that is focused on Jesus.

    Is this the norm in your church?
    How much of the service should be focused on Jesus?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Every last minute of a church service should be focused on Jesus. If this isn't the case in your church brother, I think you should probably find a new one.

    Paula
     
  4. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess it all depends on the worshippers reason for being there. If you are there for the sole purpose of worshipping Jesus, then it is focused on Him. If the bible is being preached then it is focuseed on Jesus, it's His book. If you feel you aren't being fed find another church. I go to an SBC and we sing about JEsus, have prayer in Jesus name 3 or 4 times, I don't count so I don't know, and then we have a great sermon,we as christains are being fed, and Jesus is always mentioned, the gospel is always included for those who aren't christians. So I would say our service is Jesus focused, He is our only reason for being there.
     
  5. qwerty

    qwerty
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was assuming these kind of responses when I posed the question. I don't think most people think about what is being focused on when they go to church. I was raised in SBC for 18 years, and have attended mostly Bible churches and Baptist churches in my life. And I have been in many churches.

    Case in point.
    The pastor preached through Philippians for 12 weeks. Told us a lot about each verse, what the words meant, etc. But Jesus didn't get any time. By that, I mean, Jesus was not focused on for even on minute in the message.

    Jesus got a little bit of time in the singing, but that was about it.

    Your churches may be very different than the ones I have been in. That would be great. But from what I see, the King of kings and Lord of lords has a hard time getting much attention in His church.
     
  6. Brian

    Brian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe this ties in with another thread on active membership. If we spent more time focused on Jesus in our services more of those on our roles would be active. They join the church after professing Christ and find out Christ isn't really the focus of services so they just dwindle away. And for the most part they don't really know why. :(
     
  7. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by qwerty:
    [QB]The preaching is usually not about Jesus. It is expository, one verse at a time, usually.
    So, we can go for weeks without hearing any message that is focused on Jesus.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This is incredible. Expository preaching is the way to go - but every sermon must be brought to Christ and the gospel.
     
  8. Brian

    Brian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chris along with other issues this is why I had to leave my last church. The Pastor would preach wonderful sermons or orations then in the last two or three minutes mention Jesus or salvation. It got covered but not like one would think it should. I agree exposition is a wonderful method. But the point here is that all too often the expositor forgets (in cases intentionally) that all scripture truly only has one purpose, to draw people to Christ.
     
  9. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    Brian:

    I agree with you. I did not mean to infer that Christ and the gospel should be sermon add-ons. Rather, preaching should be of the redemptive-historical model, preaching Christ in every verse of Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation. The OT should be preached as well as New, and shown to point to redemption in Christ.
     
  10. Brian

    Brian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another sad aside here is this, many pastors feel that they need to disciple thier congrgation from the pulpit every service. Poorly discipled congegations are becomming the norm these days distracting the pastor into doing it from the pulpit intead of preaching the Gospel.
    BTW I understood what you meant by bringing the sermon to Christ and the Gospel though exposition and wasn't trying to make any judgmental inferrence. Just I had seen an extream case where this particular pastor would add just enough Gospel to keep from being run off. Of course to those that like to sit in a service once a week and not get too convicted like it a lot. '...as for me and my house we will serve the Lord' josh 24-15 paraphase.
     
  11. Joey M

    Joey M
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    0
    I praise God for the godly pastor that He has given us. I don't know if he can complete a sentence without mentioning Jesus. :D Of course that was a joke in a way, but true to the way he preaches. I have yet to hear him preach a sermon that it's focus was not Christ centered or that Christ wasn't mentioned throughout the sermon and not just at the begining in the middle and at the end. I have a great pastor and a church that really are all in unisum (spelt wrong) in purpose. There is a love at are small church that I have never felt anywhere else. Not saying that it isn't anywhere else, just expressing the love that we have at our local church.

    God speed.
     
  12. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
    Expand Collapse
    <img src ="/ernie.JPG">

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2001
    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who receives the glory if Christ is not preached?




    Title: The Holy Bible, King James Version


    Ephesians 3:14 (KJV)
    14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
    Ephesians 3:15 (KJV)
    15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
    Ephesians 3:16 (KJV)
    16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
    Ephesians 3:17 (KJV)
    17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
    Ephesians 3:18 (KJV)
    18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
    Ephesians 3:19 (KJV)
    19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
    Ephesians 3:20 (KJV)
    20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
    Ephesians 3:21 (KJV)
    21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just some thoughts -- I wonder if you are perhaps not overreacting here. Are you saying your church never prays in Jesus' name? I find that hard to believe. Many songs are about Christ but many great songs are not about Christ. We should sing both. When you sing and preach about God, you are singing and preaching about Christ. God was revealed in Christ. I think you might be drawing a bit too firm of a distinction here.

    I do love to sing and preach Jesus but I also love to sing and preach about God.

    On expository preaching, it is definitely the way to go. As Piper says in The Supremecy of God in Preaching, the reason so many doubt the abiding value of expository preaching is because they have never sat under it. If your pastor only preached 12 messages on Philippians -- well what can I say. I preached 36 in 1 Thess; 35 in James; I am now on my 15 in 1 John (3:2-3 tomorrow) and I suspect I will be close to 40 by the time we are done. There is nothing wrong with that provided it is done properly. It can easily become an exegetical/informational lesson instead of a message preached to change lives. My struggle is not to preach seminary level messages to kindergartners in Christ.

    However, I would argue that if an expository preacher preaches Christ in every text, then he is not preaching the text. Christ is simply not in every text. That is not to say that he is excluded from a text; he is just not the focus of every text. Those committed to preaching the text must be sure to preach the text; not preach what they want to say from the text. I ams sure that someone will misinterpret my comments to say that I am downplaying Jesus. I am most certainly not. Just cautioning that we must be careful to preach and understand what the text says, not what we would like for it to.

    It reminds me of the story of the preacher who always preached on baptism. His deacons urged him to find a new topic. So he preached on creation. His first point was God created everything. His second point was God created water. His third point was you should be baptized in the water God created. (There are many various strains of this story I know). My biggest struggle each week is to arrive at the answer to the question: What does this text say? or more technically, What did the author intend for this text to communicate? (not what does it say to me or what do I want to preach; but what does it say?) Then I can move on to illustration and application. I like what Haddon Robinson says: You are not ready to preach until you can sum up your message in one sentence. (FTR, my sermon in the morning is The hope to come motivates us to live a life of godliness.)

    Anyway, be careful of judging a "Christless" church by the wrong standard.

    [ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  14. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,118
    Likes Received:
    319
    &gt;&gt;Case in point.
    The pastor preached through Philippians for 12 weeks&gt;&gt;

    Whew! QUERTY,

    How did he get past the Kenosis passage in Philippians without mentioning Jesus Christ?

    Philppians 2:
    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    HankD

    [ November 25, 2001: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  15. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    0
    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

    However, I would argue that if an expository preacher preaches Christ in every text, then he is not preaching the text. Christ is simply not in every text. That is not to say that he is excluded from a text; he is just not the focus of every text. Those committed to preaching the text must be sure to preach the text; not preach what they want to say from the text. I ams sure that someone will misinterpret my comments to say that I am downplaying Jesus. I am most certainly not. Just cautioning that we must be careful to preach and understand what the text says, not what we would like for it to.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    If you are saying that Christ is not literally in every verse, (as I believe you are) then you are of course, correct. Nevertheless, every Scripture of the OT and NT is to be read in light of the Christ-event. All Scripture is Christocentric. As J.P. Braswell has said:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As Christians we are to read the OT in light of the Christ-event. Christ has opened the OT Scriptures to us and shown us that their proper interpretation involves reading them as a witness to him ( Lk. 24:27, 44-46; Jn. 5:39; Mt. 13:17 ). The meaning-content of the inscripturated, theopneustic Word is the Word ( Jn. 1:1 ); the gospel narrative is the key that unlocks the message of Scripture. The truth-claims of a prophecy of Scripture (according to the divine intent of the Spirit who moved the prophets) is that which the canonical witness of New-Covenant Scripture -- the finished product, the end of the process of revelation in history -- intends to assert as true. If we are controlled by that canonical truth-claim, we must read Scripture as Promise and Fulfilment centering on the Christ-event and thus read the Old Testament as having been captured by, and made captive to, the enkapsis of the New Covenant. Any other reading of the OT writings than a New-Covenantal reading illumined by the Spirit of Christ (imparting to us the mind of God, their ultimate author -- 1 Cor. 2:9-16 ) veils the revelation that is the proper canonical function of the OT within the Christian Bible ( 2 Cor. 3:6-18 ). Canonical interpretation is Christocentric. The sundry times and diverse manners in which God formerly spoke by the prophets were always controlled by his eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus (a mystery not revealed in former times as it has been in the NT revelation-event). The Son is the full and final word that all previous words anticipated and prepared for, and it is that New-Covenantal Son-Word that unifies and gives canonical significance to all that came before. Accordingly, canonical hermeneutics requires our reading the OT in light of the fuller NT revelation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    See Interpreting Prophecy: The Canonical Principle
     
  16. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chris,

    Your approach (and the one that espoused by your article) removes objective meaning from the OT. The reason canonical context is not a determinative factor in hermeneutics is because the original author and reader did not have it. It proper meaning comes only from canonical context, then Scripture meant nothing to the original reader. It would have true meaning only for those with the completed canon.

    It is interesting that he uses Isaiah 7:14 as a proof text. I wrote my ThM thesis on that text and came to exactly the opposite conclusion. Isaiah did in fact intend to communicate a virgin birth. Matthew would be illegitimately using Isaiah 7:14 if Isaiah did not intend that.

    However, we are getting off the topic of this thread. Suffice it to say that I disagree with the position you have espoused for a number of reasons.
     
  17. John Wells

    John Wells
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,568
    Likes Received:
    0
    By all means Chris and Pastor Larry, start a new thread on your discussion.

    If there is further input on the original topic, please continue.
     
  18. qwerty

    qwerty
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    I guess I didn't word the question quite precise enough in the beginning of this thread.

    In you church service, how many minutes do you give to Jesus, where He is totally the focus?

    That is, talking specifically to Jesus and about Jesus, presenting Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of lords.

    What, in my opinion, is not focusing on Jesus:
    Singing songs that are teaching songs, or songs about Christian issues.
    Teaching and Preaching about doctrine and theology that doesn't mention Jesus.

    I doubt if hardly anyone can understand this question. Our church services are so focused on us and what we need and what we want. We think that by going to church we are doing God a favor. I have been in many churches, and very few give Jesus the place He should have.

    COL 1:[17] He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. [18] And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

    Does God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) have to be in church just because we are there? You might want to read Revelation 2 about the letter to the church at Ephesus. Jesus said they were VERY busy, but they had left their first love. His warning was that He was about to take away their lampstand.

    Major Ian Thomas explained it this way:
    The Ephesus church could go on meeting, and staying very busy, but Jesus was leaving soon if they didn't repent. They could keep the buildings, their programs, have church, but Jesus wouldn't be there. And they wouldn't even miss Him.

    So, again, how much actual time is spent focusing on Jesus in your church service?
     

Share This Page

Loading...