Featured Jesus and the Rapture

To keep the Word you have to honor the Word. Not take little snippets out of context. Case in point is your trying to make Rev. 3:10 into a Pre-trib verse which, BTW, is one of the fables that come to mind when I read 2 Tim. 2:4.

Another case example of modern fabling is taking just a little part of Daniel 9, turning verses that were understood for centuries to refer to Christ into an imagined reference to Antichrist. That, too, came from people wanting something sensational.

 

You need to understand, brother, what is involved in this "keeping". It is not a physical thing. It is a spiritual keeping. Don't be like the 1st-century Jews who stumbled at the glorious and spiritual nature of Christ's promises because they just could not think beyond the physical.

Christ also promised them - and us - that not a hair on their head would perish. Yet some would lose, not only their hair, but their heads!

"13. And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15. For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16. And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18. But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19. In your patience possess ye your souls." Luke 21:13-19

This "keeping" from the hour of temptation is the same thing. This would be obvious if Christians would spend more time just diligently reading their Bibles, doing the hard but rewarding task of studying out cross-references.

 

Always remember and never forget, if you are not here, there you are.

 

Revelation 3:
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Verse 10 seems really clear that the believer will be kept from the time of tribulation, the time of trial coming on the whole world to them that dwell upon the earth.

What does Christ mean when He says in verse 11 hold that fast that no man take thy crown.

2 Timothy 2:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

The crown of righteousness for one that you will not gain if you turn from the truth of His coming, it is laid up for those who love His appearing. The truth contained in the eschatelogical teaching you believe. Not turning to fables as some have in our day. But for those who keep the patience, the faith of His returning and don't turn to fables, for them there is laid upon a crown of righteousness. Many have giVen up and had that crown taken from them because they no longer love His appearing and no longer claim the truth that HE will keep them from the hour of temptation that is coming upon all the earth.

 

Ah. Now we are adding to Scripture. There is a verse about that too.

The loving His appearing is a good litmus test for the true Christian, but you make it into something else: the loving the doctrine that He is still to come. That is not what the text says. Those who don't love His appearing (whether or not they see it a a present and ongoing reality) are the ones who shrink from Him, who forsake the gathering together. Those are the ones that God will have no pleasure in, as Hebrews tells us.

You are so eager to bash Preterists with your verses that you don't seriously think about what the verses are teaching. You seem to be just reading Scripture for ammunition. Not a wise thing.

 

Since they had a church to build and an ERA to start. For Pentacost had not yet begun and their work was really just beginning. He prayed that they would not be taken with Him and killed, He was praying for their safety and their protection against evil, just as He is our advocate.

 

Post tribulation, yes...but where is the rapture there? Does the great tribulation occur in Heaven where the elect are gathered from? If anything this passage shows post tribulation the elect already in Heaven. Maybe this is the one pre trib passage your pastor wanted

 

You might have a point if Matt 24-25 is speaking about the Church as the Bride of Christ. However, it is not clear as you say that Jesus is speaking about the Church. I know it is difficult for the covenant/reformed and preterists among us to hold to a separation between the Nation Israel and the Church but this is the problem.

Even if one could make a Biblical case for replacement theology this still leads a huge gap between Adam and Moses of saved people without an identity in the Church. If Israel is code for the Church and Jehovah replaced Israel with the Church this causes problems with the Biblical concept of God hating divorce. It also makes it difficult for me to understand how Jehovah could cast aside the Jews for disobedience when the Church is guilty of the same.

But again, Covenant theology teaches a covenant(s) of works, grace and redemption which are not covenants found anywhere in the Bible. The result of anything other than a pre-tribulation return of Christ for His bride remove the imminency from his coming back for his own. If the church is still on earth once the tribulation starts, we would know that his appearing would be at the end of the tribulation, and that would make it easy to calculate the percise timing of his appearing, and yet Jesus assures us that no one knows the time. Like a thief in the night, if you knew you would be prepared.

 

Israel is not a divorcee, she is a widow; she killed her husband, Christ the King:

7.....for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall in no wise see mourning.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

....irregardless of what she says in her heart. And she was convicted of the crime:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1670498&highlight=comforter#post1670498

Well, that's exactly what God has done:

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
42 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear. Mt 13

15 And they cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
16 He will come and destroy these husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others........ Lk 20

11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven:
12 but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast forth into the outer darkness: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth. Mt 8

 

Perhaps you missed the part about Rome's involvement. It was a Roman court, Roman death sentence, Roman execution. It was the Romans that gave a few believing Jews the body left hanging on the cross, to place in the tomb. For the first decade of so after, the Bride of Christ was made up 100% of the Son's of Abraham through Issac through Jacob.

I guess you missed that little part.

 

Perhaps you missed this itty bitty part:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth.....ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: Acts 2:22,23

The Romans were but a tool in the hands of the Jews. Reread:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1670498&highlight=comforter#post1670498

Show even one place where the Spirit convicts the Romans of the crime.

 

ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him. But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; Acts 3:13-15

Yea, the Roman involved here was wanting to set Christ free. It was the Jews who killed the Prince of life, not the Romans.

 

The preterist have to believe this absurd line of thought in order to make Jerusalem = Babylon.

 

Question? Public school education early 1970s?

 

Translation: you must believe as I do and be preterist post mil reformed covenant replacement. Then you will have enlightment and *tom will put you on his friends list.

 

I provided many scriptures that show the Jews were the ones the Spirit convicts of the crime, and I asked you to provide even one that shows the Romans convicted of it, and you could not.

Mystery Babylon the great city is clearly identified in Rev 11:8.

You're sensational Israel cultist for as long as you can remember, right?

 

Of course God knew the Jews would reject Him we see it in:

Isaiah 53:
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Then the Lord made this promise to the woman (Israel, Judah) in Isaiah 54:

1Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

2Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;

3For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.

4Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

5For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

9For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

11O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

12And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

13And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

14In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

15Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

16Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

17No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

Israel is not Chirst's widow. What a ludicrous claim to say it is.

If it were Christ's widow, then Acts 1:8 would make absolutely no sense.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Nor would Acts 20:21

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul clearly preached to the Jews that they should repent. And He was called to preach that message of repentance by God Himself.

As a matter of fact, if Israel were the widow of Christ, the Apostle Paul would not have been converted on the road to Damascus... himself a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin.

 

Seems God the Father promises Israel this:

6For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

7For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

8In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.

Then Isaiah 59:

19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Israel/Judah shall fear the Lord, the Redeemer Shall come to Zion, His Covenant with them, "...My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever." God has made an everlating Covenant with Israel and that Covenant is not a conditional covenant but unconditional.

Then Chapter 60:
14The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

15Whereas thou has been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

16Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

17For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

18Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

19The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.



Then we see where Jesus read in Nazareth and they wanted to Stone Him yet we reaad all of it in Isaiah 61:

1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

4And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

5And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

6But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

7For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

8For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

9And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

10I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

11For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

God has plans for Israel and that let's out replacement theology, unless you consider yourself a Jew instead of a Gentile. For God's promise states very clearly "...ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves..." "... their seed shall be known among the Gentiles..."


God says He will make an Everlasting Covenant with Israel, not the Gentiles.

8For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

 

Which Israel? DNA Israel? Or the real Israel which is born from the Jerusalem that is above? The children of the heavenly Zion.