Jesus as Lord

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Robert J Hutton, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Robert J Hutton

    Robert J Hutton
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    Is it possible to receive Christ as saviour but not as Lord? I am sure this has been discussed somewhere on the BB before and I would be grateful if someone could give me the link for this.

    KInd regards to all.

    Bob
     
  2. Gershom

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    No, because He IS Lord. Same as He IS Messiah, He IS King, etc. That's who He IS. But I have a feeling you're talking about something else. ;)

    Are you asking about Lordship Salvation?
     
  3. Martin

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    ==The answer to the question is no, one cannot recieve Jesus as Savior and not Lord. The Apostle Paul stated in Romans 10:9...

    Jesus is Lord. Any attempt to try to accept Him as Savior while rejecting Him as Lord is really unbelief. All that is saying is that, "I want the benefits of a relationship with Jesus but I don't really want a relationship with Jesus". Clearly such an attitude is not reflective of a repentant heart, nor a redeemed heart.

    Martin.
     
  4. Helen

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    The above posts are talking about reality. There are a lot of churches that promote a non-reality. They say God can be your 'co-pilot' in effect. He can save you but you can still run your own life. He will just help a lot! Maybe He will get you your coffee and a snack, too?

    In reality, Jesus is GOD. Totally Lord, totally Savior, totally God. You cannot, in reality, have a piece of Him. Life in and with Jesus is an all or nothing proposition.

    It should be noted that we start as babes in Him, and then are matured by the Holy Spirit, but this is not the same thing as only accepting Jesus as Savior and not Lord. He is not fire insurance for hell.
     
  5. bapmom

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    It is possible to be saved, but not yet fully surrendered to God....some call this not having "made Him Lord over all your life."

    Realiistically speaking, no matter how spiritual we like to sound, none of us are totally surrendered to Christ in all areas of our lives.

    God's still working on us all.
     
  6. Circuitrider

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    At that moment when we receive Christ (John 1:12) we are born again, and based upon Paul's words in Romans 10:9,10 he is truly Lord of our life. However as Bapmom stated, we are not always acting under his lordship and may find ourselves doing our own will and thus may not be acknowledging him as our Lord. However, at that moment we received him he was Lord of our life. [​IMG]
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    And (carefully intejecting a little reformed thinking) the only reason we believe/call on Jesus as Savior and Lord is because of the regenerating work of the Spirit which has already impacted us and allowed us the privilege of faith.

    NO ONE is saved (repent/believe) without realizing Jesus as Lord (repent) and Savior (believe).

    The "easy believism" of some ifbX and the Graham ilk emphasize the "believe" to the virtual exclusion or redefining of "repent". Converts by "easy believism" are very suspect as to genuine salvation.

    I think THAT is where the conflict has come. John MacArthur (repent/believe) took the Jack Hyles/Billy Graham philosophy (easy believism) to task on this.
     
  8. Robert J Hutton

    Robert J Hutton
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    I am extremely grateful to you all for your answers; I wonder if someone could explain what is "Lordship Salvation" mentioned in one of the posts. Also I wonder if Dr Bob could give more details of the last paragraph in his post viz. the difference between John MacArthur and Billy Graham on this issue.

    Thanking you for your help and kind regards to all.

    Bob
     
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    Lordship salvation is not found in the Bible. Making Jesus Lord of your life is not a requirement for salvation. Works come after salvation.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    False idea of what "Lordship salvation" is, Hope.

    In reality, the Lordship part emphasizes the "repentance" and subjection of the soul to Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9) and the salvation part emphasizes the response of faith/believing (Rom 10:13).

    BOTH (yes, BOTH) are a part of genuine salvation. Salvation without repentance is NOT "Biblical" salvation. Hebrews 6 begins with moving into deeper doctrine " . . not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God"

    The Billy Graham/Hyles types speak of faith (part 2) and neglect the foundation which is repentance (part 1).
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Dr. Bob,

    Does the Graham/Hyles types do this because repentance is not seeker sensitive?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Can't speak for them. BOTH types are intensely interested in one thing - BIG NUMBERS. That is absolute fact.

    Easy believism (either without repentance or "redefining" repentance askew from theological base like some hylesites try) allows for a gajillion "convert" numbers. Adding the truly HARD step - repentance of sin/works in submission to the moral Law - would cut numbers down drastically.

    Remember, the "demons believe and tremble" but trust NO ONE thinks by believing that is all it is to be "saved".
     
  13. Artimaeus

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    Dr. Bob, I'm afraid I may not be understanding something. I have heard quite a few of Billy Graham's sermons and attended Jack Hyles' Church and school for a semester (Fall 1974)and I never got the slightest impression that they were advocating salvation apart from submission to Christ. It always seemed to me that they were saying it was necessary to recognize/acknowledge/accept Jesus as Lord.

    I also don't quite understand the negative reaction to the term "easy believism". It IS easy to believe. Just as it it is easy to jump off a cliff.

    1. Walk to edge of cliff.
    2. Take one step.

    The gospel is simple, even hillbillies can understand it. Taking that one step is easy and yet hard in the sense of what it means.
     
  14. Hope of Glory

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    Looking to Jesus as Lord comes after . It's works. Failing to do so will not send you to the lake of fire, but it will cost you dearly.
     
  15. Dr. Bob

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    Some are so wrong that I wonder if they even are READING what was posted. Real verses that speak of REPENTANCE, submission to the LORD Jesus Christ, not just a simple "believe" (like demons do).

    EASY BELIEVING alone will damn without repentance. It is the forgotten part of salvation. It has been condemned by fundamentalists from day one and is one of the big reasons for all the teaching against Graham.

    BTW, repentance/faith are both AFTER the regenerating work of the Spirit of God. Man could not (read Romans 3:9-12) repent OR believe unless the Spirit of God changed us from being DEAD to being ALIVE! It's a miracle.
     
  16. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    "Believe" is for common salvation.

    Repentence, faith, making him Lord, etc., all come after salvation and are for justification and rewards.

    Salvation is an event; justification is a process.
     
  17. Sunnydays

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    Don't know about anyone here. but all my translations all say "Lord and saviour".
    Never saviour and Lord.

    He cannot be your saviour till you make him Lord. I honestly believe this is one of the main reasons many people are never really truly saved. they never made him Lord of thier life just fire insurance.
     
  18. Artimaeus

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    If the term "easy believism" does not include repentance then I am fine with saying that easy believism is unscriptural. However, there is NO scripture which even infers (to me) that regeneration takes place BEFORE I believe. Every scripture I have ever read either says or strongly stirs my thinking toward believing first and THEN regeneration. You don't quench your thirst and THEN get a drink of water. It just doesn't make sense to me.
     
  19. IfbReformer

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    If you mean by "not as Lord" can a person accept Christ as their Savior and not accept him as their God and King then absolutely not - you cannot seperate the two.

    If you mean by "not as Lord" can a person accept Christ as their Savior, God and King yet not have every are of their life in line with his will - then absolutely yes they can and do!

    We all had teachers in school, we accepted them as our teacher and authority, that they had the right to tell us how to behave in their class. Yet we all strayed at times, some much more than others, yet we still believed they were our teacher and authority.

    We all have had parents, and while we accepted them as our parents and authority we did not always act in accordance with their will, some of us more than others.

    Saving faith is accepting that Jesus Christ is the only way, the only Savior and that he is our God and King. By beliving he is our God and King we are saying we believe he has the authority and right to rule our lives. But believing he has the right to rule our lives, and that he is our God and King, does not mean we will always submit to that rule our lives.

    Surrender to Christ is a daily process, not some one time decision someone makes when they get believe or some decision they walk an aisle and do 5 years later.

    It is daily, daily we fail, daily we get back up and resurrender our lives to Christ. But we all know that even with a heart that wants to please God, we all have Giants and weakness, and things that we don't always give to Christ when we should. This is the reality of the Christian walk until he redeems us from these wretched bodies.

    "
    Romans 7:18-19 & 21-25(NIV)
    18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing...

    21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

    IFBReformer
     
  20. 4His_glory

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    "Believe" is for common salvation.

    Repentence, faith, making him Lord, etc., all come after salvation and are for justification and rewards.

    Salvation is an event; justification is a process.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Justification is a one time event Hope. Sactificaction has a "progressive" aspect to it. I would familiarize my self with basic theological terms before I involve myself in this discussion if I were you.
     

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