Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Mar 15, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
    9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.


    This refers to the Person of Christ not to how he works among His people! For example, the Old Testament Scriptures cover a period of approximately 4000 years and yet the first noted miracle worker was Moses some 2200 years after creation. The next noted miracle workers are Elijah and Elisha. Hardly a consistent pattern over 4000 years.

    In the past 2000 years the first noted miracle workers were Jesus Christ and his apostles. However, after the apostles there are scattered claims over the next 1800 until the modern Pentecostal movement about 1905. Hardly a consisten pattern over 2000 years.

    Notice that Hebrews 13:9 warns against being carried aoubt with divers and strange doctrines. What has been consistent since Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 14:6 is the one and self-same gospel of Jesus Christ. There has never been any other gospel (Gal. 1:6-9; 2 Cor. 11:4; Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:21-22; Gal. 3:6-8). There has never been another kind of justification but justification by grace through faith in Christ alone without works (Rom. 4:1-25) as the Old Testament saints were justified the very same way (Rom. 3:24-26) as we are. There has only been one "everlasting covenant" (Heb. 13:20) with an "everlasting gospel" (Rev. 14:6).

    Miracles, signs and wonders have NEVER been the necessary evidence of salvation by the gospel but have ALWAYS been the confirmation by God of the oral and written word of his prophets (Ex. 4:1-5; 1 Kngs 18:32-36; Acts 2:22; Heb. 2:3-4; Isa. 8:16-18).
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    bib

    If you mean faith is an condition for Justification before God, then that is a false gospel.

    Justification by Faith is the fruit and effect of Justification by Christ's Blood alone Rom 5:9

    The whole Church of God was declared openly Justified from all their Offences by Christ's resurrection from the Dead Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Anyone Christ died for, even centuries after His Resurrection, were born sinners by nature, children of wrath BY NATURE, enemies by Nature, but they were Justified before God from all sin ! Deny this and you deny the Everlasting Gospel !
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    You speak ignorantly. The Word of God explicitly says that we are justified "BY" faith "before God"

    Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    It it is this very conclusion that Paul illustrates with Abraham "before God" when he goes on to say:

    Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
    3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
    4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
    5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.......5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:



    You don't even understand what he is saying. Romans 3:24-26 explains what he means in Romans 5:9.

    His "blood" justifies those who BELEIVE in his shed blood for their justification as the "blood" represents the righteous life given as a substitute and this is the message or good news found in the gospel which is to be embraced by faith:

    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

    That is how the "blood" of Christ justifies the elect "THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD."



    More pure ignorance and perversion of God's Word. READ IT IN CONTEXT! Look at the scripture that precedes and follows it:

    Rom. 4:23 ¶ Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
    25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
    5:1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


    Verse 24 says it is only true "IF we believe on him"

    Romans 5:1 makes this claim only for those "being justified BY FAITH"

    Romans 5:2 restricts access into this grace "BY FAITH"




    What an irrational oxymoronic anti-biblical statement!

    Anyone justified before God are no longer children of wrath by nature, nor are they enemies by nature, but they are RECONCILED and they are REGENERATED by nature and at peace with God. The stupidity of your doctrine is that you have the oxymoronic concept that one can be pre-justified but not pre-gloried. You attempt to make God's purpose already fulfilled before it is fulfilled. Talk about complete irrational nonsense:BangHead:

    Election saves no one but is "to" salvation. The Eternal Purpose of God saved no one but only predetermined the elect will be saved through God's chosen means.

    This OP has to do with the immutability of the person of Jesus Christ not your heretical teachings. Go start your own thread if you want to propagate your foolishness or else stick to the OP
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Mar 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 15, 2012
  4. savedbymercy

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    bib

    You speak ignorantly. Paul is Teacing that everone Christ died for when He rose from the Grave Jusifified, it was their Sins He was Justified from and so they were Justified before God. Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

    Now you are telling me that when one for whom Christ died is born a sinner, that that one has not already been Justified because of Christ's Work of the Cross, satisfying God's Law and Justice, [personal attack edited]
    They are, as Children of Wrath they are Vessels of mercy, not vesseld of wrath !
     
    #4 savedbymercy, Mar 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2012
  5. DaChaser1

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    GOD said that we MUST place faith in jesus in order to be saved!

    ALl are born as sinners, and the Cross of Christ ONLY saves us and reconciles us back to God ONCE we place faith in him !
     
  6. DaChaser1

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    jesus is the word, is God the Son , do you agree with God on that truth?

    has ALWAY been God, but chose to come to earth as a man and live among us, and died to atone for sins of his people?
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    Dude, do you believe Rom 4:25 is the question. When Christ rose again Justified from the sins of those He bare, did that not give evidence that those whose sins He bare were Justified with God ? If you deny that, you deny the Cross !
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    dac

    your god said that, but Not the God of scripture. Man is not saved by doing or placing anything, that is works !

    Once you say man must do something to get saved, you are preaching a false gospel !

    Thats a Lie, The Cross of Christ reconciles those he died for to God even while they are enemies ! Rom 5:10

    10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
     
    #8 savedbymercy, Mar 15, 2012
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  9. DaChaser1

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    Believe in the bible, when it states over and over again that one MUST believe in jesus to get saved by Grace of God, and that ALL are not reconciled until that happens!
     
  10. DaChaser1

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    Apostle adressing those already were saved by grace of God!

    NOT addressing when they were reconciled, but that they now are!

    at the time received jesus by faith!
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    Dude, trying interpreting that phrase in its context for a change!

    1. It is preceded by the condition of faith dude!

    24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

    2. It is followed by an explicit application obtained "by faith" dude!

    1 ¶ Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

    3. It is followed by an explicit explanation that access to justification is by faith dude!

    2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    You just don't get it! The sacrifice of Christ is the purposed provision for the elect but it needs to be personally applied and until it is personally applied it has no personal application!

    You just don't get it! You cannot take God's purpose, isolate it from the provision or application and make it stand complete alone by itself! Neither can you do that with the provision or application! However, that kind of isolationism is precisely the very foundation of your doctrines and your modus operandi for interpreting scriptures! You are all messed up dude! You will continue to be messed up until you learn how to interpret the scriptuers correctly. The Purpose of God, the Provision of God and the Application of God cannot be separately isolated from each other and made to stand alone!!! They are distinct from each other but in a cause and effect relationship with each other so that they are dependent upon each other from cause to application. You don't get this! Because you don't get this you invent false doctrines due to your false premises and false interpetations of scripture.
     
    #11 The Biblicist, Mar 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2012
  12. savedbymercy

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    bib

    Dude its no way you can get around it, If you deny that Christ's resurrection is or was Evidence of the Elect standing Legally Justified before God you are a Liar ! Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    Readers, there you have it! SBG does not regard context, but jerks scripture out of its context and applies any way he wants - period! This is what he is forced to do to support his heretical doctrines.
     
  14. plain_n_simple

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    There is your whole motive Biblicist. You want to be seen and heard of people to impress yourself, and your audience. If you were trying to correct with love, it would be with much patience, no anger. In fact, this board is most likely the extent of your Christian walk, an armchair theologian, repent sir. God bless you.
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    As usual you are talking ignorantly! I have now patiently pointed out the context THREE times to SBG why his use of Romans 4:25 cannot possibly be correct. What does he do? He ignores the context and just repeats his dogma!

    I have dealt with this kind of rationale from SBG for months. There comes a time when dealing rationally with some is useless and you simply just have to rebuke them and call a spade a spade.

    For example, I have three times pointed out to you the implications of 1 Cor. 12:29-30 in regard to your position on spiritual gifts. What have you done? Ignored it all three times and simply repeated your dogma regardless of what God's Word says explicitly about such a topic.

    Your chiming in at this point simply because your guilty of the same blind dogmatic seared conscience found in SGB and a few others like Moriah and you don't like being confronted and rebuked. Well, get used to it because this is a forum identified as a "DEBATE" forum. If you consistently act like you and SBG and Moriah act then patience has its limits with blind dogmatism and lack of common sense or rationality.
     
  16. plain_n_simple

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    You might consider that when someone is not convinced of what you teach, maybe you are only planting a seed, and you might not see the results.

    Maybe the Holy Spirit needs a chance to work on those who do not agree with you.
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    If you are dealing with reasonable and rational people you may have a point. But there are those whose minds are so seared by false doctrine and it is so obvious that reasonable discussion has no opportunity. That is the type that need to be reproved and then there is a point they need to be rebuked sharply because there is no rationale behind them but pure blind dogma that has but one aim which is to proselyte others to their errors. There are some just like that on this forum.

    If a person is too proud to admit their wrong when their own words abundantly demonstrate it for all to see, and they stubbornly persist in their lies regardless, it is time to sharply rebuke them.

    You seem to be more reasonable and rational than the others.
     
    #17 The Biblicist, Mar 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2012
  18. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    You do not regard Truth within the context. If you don't believe that the Resurrection of Christ gave Evidence that all those who had their offences laid to His Charge, and He Satisfied God's Law and Justice for them, and that they stand Justified before God based upon the Cross Work of Christ alone, you are a unbeliever, and a rejecter of Truth ! Rom 4:25

    25Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

    Christ was not Justified from His own Personal sins, but those for whom He represented, He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

    20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

    Dude you are totally ignorant of bible Salvation !
     
  19. steaver

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    You seem to have a bias here p_n_s. If you read over this thread you will see some very hostle comments coming from SavedbyMercy. Yet, I don't see you giving him the same admonishion. SBM has called Biblicist "nothing but a liar" , simply for not believing the way he does about a doctrine.
     
  20. steaver

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    SBM, you need to stop with the accusations of your opponant in a debate being an "unbeliever". ALL here are "believers" . It is a DEBATE! If there were not differing points of view then there wouldn't be any debate forum. You need to stop calling your brothers in CHrist non-brothers simply because they do not see certain doctrines your way. You are suppose to try to persuade, not condemn.

    Paul said we can have all knowledge and if we have not love we are nothing. John said if we do not love our brothers we are not of God.

    Now tell Biblicist you love him and appologize for your anti-love comments. :love2:

    ps, and go back through your post and edit them out for the sake of the true non-believers who come here and read how we treat our fellow Christians.
     

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