Jesus did not die on "Good Friday"

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Caissie, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. Caissie

    Caissie
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    Jesus did not die on "Good Friday"

    Does it matter?
    I will show you in the following article that Jesus died on a Wednesday. This is not an important issue though. I their are many more issues that are far more important. One reason I bring this up is just in case you are ever in a debate with a scoffer that knows the bible or someone who is saying, "see, the bible has errors." One of the reasons that some Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah was because they think that Jesus died on Friday and was raised on Sunday.]. This will give you ammo to defend the bible. The other reason I bring this up is to show you that you shouldn't take anyone's word for anything. Check it out! The only word that is perfect is The Word.





    The Proof
    When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign that He was really the Messiah, Jesus said, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
    Matthew 12:38-40

    We could debate about the 3 days, but there is no debate about the 3 nights. You can't get 3 nights from Friday night to Sunday Morning.

    Ok, lets go over some facts:


    1. The Hebrew day starts in the evening and ends the following evening.
    (Leviticus 23:32)

    2. Jesus died on the day before Sabbath (a preparation day)

    3. There are 2 types of Sabbaths, the regular Sabbath that occurs every Friday evening until Saturday evening. Then there are the High Days, that are the annual Sabbaths.

    4. The preparation day that Jesus died on was preparation for a High Day.
    "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,)..."John 19:31


    5. Mary Magdalene went to the tomb of Jesus, Sunday morning and Jesus was already gone. "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay." (Matthew 28:1-6)


    6. The feast of unleavened bread is called the Passover. (Luke 22:1)


    More Scriptures:


    1. Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified. (Matthew 26:2)


    2. Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. (Luke 22:7) Note that they kill the passover on the first day of unleavened bread.


    3. Remember when Pilate gave the people a choice to release either Barabbas or Jesus, and the people chose to release Barabbas. The reason why he gave them the choice was because it was Passover. "But ye have a custom, that I should release unto you one at the passover: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?" (John 18:39)


    4. And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the Passover of the LORD. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: (Numbers 28:16-18)


    This is the really cool part!
    Jesus died on the passover. Remember, the Hebrew day starts in the evening. So, Tuesday evening was the beginning of the passover. They ate the passover supper that night, then walked around in Gethsemane. The disciples slept, while Jesus prayed, then Jesus was taken by the soldiers and crucified on Wednesday afternoon which was still passover. They had to take his body off the cross because the next day was a Sabbath which was a high day (an annual Sabbath). Jesus was then in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights just like He said. Some say He rose Saturday afternoon, between 3pm and 6pm. Some say He rose at 6:01pm which would be the first day of the week (Sunday), but Mark 10:34 says that Jesus would rise on the third day. The first day of the week (Sunday) would have been the fourth day.

    The really cool thing is in the Old Testament God told the Jews to sacrifice a lamb without blemish for their sins on passover, afterwards they had "the Feast" (Exodus 12:1-30).

    Jesus is the "Lamb of God", (John 1:29 and John 1:36) "without blemish" (1 Peter 1:19) who was sacrificed for us on passover! Paul even said that Jesus was our passover and that we should keep the feast. "For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast,..." (1 Cor 5:7-8)


    Please tell me what you think of this article, agree or disagree, or whatever.

    Thanks
     
  2. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    Any part of a day can and was considered a day.

    If I say I went to work today, few people if any would think I was there for 24 hours.

    The same is true in the Hebrew language.

    How nice though, another argument on the day he died based upon one verse wrenched out of context. This doesn't get old.
     
  3. Jim Ward

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    Excellent Cassie [​IMG]

    I want to add one passage to what you posted that help show the fallacy of the view that says Jesus was in the grave anything less then three days AND three nights.

    "Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights." (Jonah 1:17)

    You posted for us the following:

    "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40)

    Did Jesus lie or was he in the grave for three days AND three nights, which will either disprove a Sunday resurrection, or as your post correctly proclaimes, does away with a Friday crucifixion.

    My Pastor has a handout on the days leading up to the crucifixion, I'll try to locate my copy and post it here.


    Jim
     
  4. Daniel David

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    Again, the Jews used various expressions in their day.

    Day and night referred to that day. Jesus was in the grave for 3 days.
     
  5. Caissie

    Caissie
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    And you get this idea from where? The Bible? (A footnote in a bible does not count. That is still someone's interpretation.) Or did some one tell you this?

    Gen 1:4-5
    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night
     
  6. Caissie

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  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    This confuses my simple monkey brain. If per Strong's definition, a part of a day is regarded as a whole day, and the Bible says Jesus died at what we call 3p.m. in our time, and which is considered a day in Eastern usage according to Strong......uhmm, let me see:

    If a 24 hour period for the Jews is sundown to sundown, then Wednesday-Thursday is one day, one night; Thursday-Friday is one day, one night, and Friday sundown to Saturday sundown is one day, one night.

    The Bible indicates many times that Jesus will rise on the third day, not a fraction before or a fraction after.

    If He rose on Sunday morning, as you say He did, then He rose on the fourth day within the 24 hour period of Saturday sundown to Sunday sundown. Wednesday makes the Seventh day Adventists correct in worshipping on a Saturday, since they consider Saturday as the first day of the week.

    I don't think you are an Adventist, per your profile, so please do a little simpler math for this poor ignorant brown monkey ?

    Thank you.
     
  8. Ben W

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    This is one piece of theology that I agree with, the Wednesday Crucifiction is not popular in alot of circles, but factual nonetheless.

    People do not consider that Friday was a High Sabbath. Even today this still is the case before passover for the Jews.

    I first learnt about this idea from the Church of God Seventh Day, yet I would be very much interested to hear of a Baptist Denomination that has officially adopted this teaching.
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    I forgot who it was, but, some years ago, there was this guy who came out with the theory that Jesus died on a Thursday and not a Friday.

    I agree with the thought that Jesus did not die on a Friday, though. Friday is purely traditional, mostly Catholic tradition.
     
  10. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    John Phillips provides the following timeline for the last week of Jesus life on pages 223 to 225 in his commentary on the gospel of John. It has been very helpful to me.

    A. The Sixth Day before the Passover
    The 9th day of Nisan
    Our Thursday Sunset to Friday Sunset
    </font>B. The Fifth Day before the Passover
    The 10th day of Nisan
    Our Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset
    </font>
    • The Lord spends the sabbath at Bethany. After sunset the first of three suppers was given, probably at the house of Lazarus (John 12:2)
      Mary of Bethany anointed Jesus (John 12:3-11)</font>
    C. The Fourth Day before the Passover
    The 11th day of Nisan
    Our Saturday Sunset to Sunday Sunset
    </font>D. The Third Day before the Passover
    The 12th day of Nisan
    Our Sunday Sunset to Monday Sunset
    </font>E. The Second Day before the Passover
    The 13th of Nisan
    Our Monday Sunset to Tuesday Sunset
    </font>F. The Day before the Passover
    The 14th of Nisan
    Our Tuesday Sunset to Wednesday Sunset
    The Day of the Crucifixion
    </font>One thing that Dr. Philips does not emphasize is that the 'passover' meal that Jesus shared with his disciples, which we remember as the last supper was in fact the preparation meal or feast of unleavened bread. No lamb was consumed as the passover lambs were killed the next day, at the very hours Jesus hung on the cross.
     
  11. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward
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    Except you miss the simple fact that in Hebrew when the word 'yome' (day) is used and has included in it words such as, first day, one day, three days, three night, second day, seventh day, and so forth, that it is in every instance limited to a period of 24 hours.

    Thge fact that Jesus indicated three days AND three nights for His time in the grave and referenced it to the three 24 hour periods that Jonah was in the belly of the great fish, leaves no room for Him to be crucified on Friday and raised on Sunday.

    What the Friday crucifixionists need to show, is where the three nights were from Friday to Sunday morning.


    Jim
     
  12. Jim Ward

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    Thanks for posting that timeline Tentmaker. Keeps me from having to dig for my copy [​IMG]

    Well, correction, I'm still going to dig it out, I just don't need to post it since you were kind enough to do so for us.


    Jim
     
  13. Caissie

    Caissie
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    I think this is addressed to me, so here is my answer:

    I never said he rose from the grave Sunday morning. I said, "Mary Magdalene went to the tomb of Jesus, Sunday morning and Jesus was already gone." And then I said, "Some say He rose Saturday afternoon, between 3pm and 6pm. Some say He rose at 6:01pm which would be the first day of the week (Sunday), but Mark 10:34 says that Jesus would rise on the third day. The first day of the week (Sunday) would have been the fourth day.

    To make it simpler...Jesus died 3pm on Wednesday, put in the grave sometime between 3pm and 5:59pm on that day and rose somewhere between 3pm and 5:59 pm on Saturday.

    If this is what the Seventh day Adventists beilieve then they are correct. I am not big on denominations. I believe God gave me a brain to...(now this is a shocker)... think with. That means to read the Bible for myself and with the Holy Spirit's help, come to the conclusion. If I relied on someone else to do the thinking, that would be occultic behavior. I do not care what the official doctrine is for any church. I only care about finding the truth. Also, I have learned that NO ONE is right on EVERYTHING. Not even the apostles were right on everything. (Just look at all the times where they would get in debates.) So I do not have to agree with ANYONE on EVERYTHING (and I do not). So with that in mind, I can safely say that even the Baptist church does not have all their doctrines right (and neither do I). And if a person does not accept a doctrine just because a cult had it right before his denomination did. He is sinning (pride).
     
  14. TC

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    Is Strong's infallible? If Jesus was buried at sundown on Wednesday, then to sundown Saturday is 3 complete 24 hour days. And since the Jewish day began at sundown, Jesus's resurrection was on the first day of the week - which fulfills His words of three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. When the women came to the grave - while it was still dark - early on the first day of the week, Jesus was already resurrected. The Wednesday crucifixion does not contradict the Bible and IMHO it is more reasonable than the traditional Catholic 'Good Friday' one.

    I came to believe that the 'Good Friday' tradition was wrong long before I read any other opinion on the subject. Being the literalist I am, I just couldn't believe three days and three nights fit from Friday sundown to Sunday early while it was still dark.

    My sister is adventist and they do not believe that Saturday is the first day of the week. Even all their literature (propaganda) states that sabbath (Saturday) is the seventh day of the week. Hence their name - seventh day adventists.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    Thank you, TC. Now, no matter what I do, I still come to the conclusion that if Jesus rose from the dead at 6:01 pm Saturday, then he spent a minute more than three days and three nights plus the extra two or three hours Wednesday which belonged to the Tuesday-Wednesday 24 hours period.

    As for the Adventist thing, yes, you're right, my mistake. I apologize.
     
  16. Johnv

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    This is an old arguement. While not all that important, it's certainly worthy of discussion:

    Taking the idea that Matthew 12:40 referrins to 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth and mandates three full 24 hour periods, then Jesus would have died on a Wednesday and rose on Saturday night. This view hinges on a literal reading of Matthew 12:40, but require a reinterpretation of the Sabbath day to be a reference to the Passover.

    Taking the idea that Matthew 12:40 referrs to 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth and mandates at least a portion of a day and a portion of a night, then Jesus would have died on a Thursday. As before, this view hinges on a literal reading of Matthew 12:40, but require a reinterpretation of the Sabbath day to be a reference to the Passover.

    Taking the idea in 1 Cor 15:4; Acts 10:40 that Jesus was raised on the third day, and taking into consideration that the Jews commonly spoke of 3 days and 3 nights as any portion thereof, then Jesus died on a Friday, and Jesus was taken down from the cross just prior to the Sabbath (Mt 27:42-43). This view is supported throughout the New Testament.
     
  17. Audra

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    If you believe the bible infallible, then the only way all of those scriptures can be stated truthfully together is to say Christ was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. Meaning a full 3 days and 3 nights, not part of.
    Otherwise, you say the bible isn't true.
     
  18. Jim Ward

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    Amen Audra. It's either beleive the Bible, or believe the 3 day 2 night myth that has no support in Scripture.


    Jim
     
  19. Daniel David

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    Audra, your either or scenerio does not take into account all possibilities. I am a strict inerrantist (even going so far to doubt the validity of someone's salvation if they deny inerrancy). You can't play that card with me.
     
  20. freeatlast

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    Jesus referred to the prophet Jonah, just as he was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so would He be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt. 12:39-40; Luke 11:30. On another occasion, Jesus stated that He would destroy the temple, and He would raise it again in three days. John 2:19. (This is referring to His body, as his body became the living temple/tabernacle on earth).

    Matt 27:62-64: “Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, 'He has risen from the dead.' So the last deception will be worse than the first.”

    Mark 15:42-44: “Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Pilate marveled that He was already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him if He had been dead for some time.” This means it was Friday afternoon since the Sabbath day begins at sundown.

    Luke 23:54-56: “That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.”

    Talmud states he died on the eve of the Sabbath, because he practiced sorcery and took them from their God. Mk.14:12 says on the first day of the Unleaven Bread when they sacrificed the Passover.

    John 19:31-33: “Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.”

    A high Sabbath was one that landed on a feast day.

    The Gospels of Mark, Luke and John all make it clear that Jesus' burial occurred shortly after His death on the day of “preparation” (Friday) before the Sabbath (Saturday), and ends at the sunset of each day. Mark 15:37-47; Luke 23:53-56; John 19:31. In order for Jesus to have been buried just before the Sabbath (Saturday), Jesus' crucifixion could only have occurred on Friday.

    The Bible is clear that Jesus was crucified on the Passover Friday, then buried later that (Friday) afternoon or evening before the Sabbath (Saturday), and then rose from the dead the first day of the week (Sunday). How could there be a fulfillment of Jesus' prediction that He would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth? What exactly does this mean? 3- literal 24- hour days or a statement related to a certain time period.

    In Old Testament the expression “one day and one night” was an idiom used often by the Jews for a day, even when it was applied to only a part of a day. The Jewish reference to this period as three days and three nights is strictly in accordance with the Jewish mode of reckoning. Evening and morning, or night and day, is the Hebrew phrase for a natural day. It was a maxim among the Jews in computing time, that a part of a day was to be received or computed as the whole.

    Christ was dead at three o’clock on Friday, they had before six o’clock, three hours to bury Him. After going through the red tape with the Romans it took less than an hour. The Jewish reckoning of time is found in the Jewish Talmud and the Babylonian Jerusalem Talmud (the commentaries of the Jews), said any part, an “onan”, any part of the day is considered a full day. On Friday before six o'clock by Jewish reckoning, any minute was considered one day and one night. From Friday night at six o'clock to Saturday at six o'clock, was another day and another night. From Saturday night to Sunday was a third day. Thus, Jesus was in the grave part of Friday (a whole “natural day”), through all of Saturday (the second day), and from Saturday at sunset a part of Sunday (the third day). Thus, it is likely that the part of the day (Friday) on which Jesus was crucified, the entire day He was in the grave (Saturday), and the part of the day on which He rose again (Sunday), estimated as entire days. The concept of three days would be an idiom, not necessarily meaning 3 full 24- hour periods.

    Genesis 42:17 shows us this idiomatic usage was common in their culture. Joseph had his brothers imprisoned for three days; in v.18, he speaks to them and releases them, on the third day. I Samuel 30:12, 13: “For he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights,” and in the next verse, “My master left me behind… three days ago.” There are other instances in the Bible in which part of a day is viewed as constituting a whole. For example, the same quantity of time referred to in the Gospel accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection as three days and three nights, which in reality was only one whole day, a part of two others, and two whole nights, is termed three days and three nights in the book of Esther. Compare Esther 4:16 (“Go ...neither eat nor drink three days, night or day . . . and so will I go in unto the king”), with Esther 5:1 (“On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the palace, in front of the king's hall”) this is also found in 2 Chr.10:5, 12; Gen. 42:17-18; 1 Kings 20:29; Luke 2:21.

    The Jews were aware of Jesus' prophecy. Matt. 27:63. The fact that the Jews asked that a command be given that the sepulcher be made secure “until the third day” showed that when the Jews spoke of “three days,” Matt. 27:64, they did not of necessity mean three “whole (24) days,” but parts of three days, as was the case of Jesus' lying dead in the grave. While this is debated the evidence for which day He rose is absolutely clarified in Scripture.

    WHAT DAY DID JESUS RISE?

    Matt. 28:1-2: “Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.” The first day of the week is Sunday according to Judaism, since Saturday is the 7th day.

    Mark 16:1-4: “Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?” But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away-- for it was very large.”

    Luke 24:1: “Now on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they, and certain other women with them, came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.”

    John 20:1 “On the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.”

    “Just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish so will the Son of man be in the heart of the earth.” This is a statement of nature and fact not of time. In rebuttal to the Pharisees not believing his miracles only one last one will be given the resurrection. He’s expressing that he will die giving Jonah as a pre-type of his death and resurrection. It was an idiom used for what He would do. How do we know this? All one has to do is read the eyewitness accounts which verify what was meant.

    Luke 24:21-23 “But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened. “Yes, and certain women of our company, who arrived at the tomb early, astonished us. When they did not find His body, they came saying that they had also seen a vision of angels who said He was alive.”

    Jesus has twice appeared to people none of which were the apostles but disciples. Cleopas and the other disciple had disbelieved the two reports already given of the resurrection. It is now the third day since all these things have occurred. If he was in three 24 hour periods it would have read the 4th day. The scripture is absolutely clear in the eyewitness testimonies on this.

    The testimony of Paul who refers to the scriptures as his validation 1 Cor. 15:3-4: “ For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that he was buried and that He rose again the THIRD day; according to the Scriptures. third day, and showed Him openly.” If it was 3 full 24-hours Paul would have said after the third day or more precisely the fourth day.

    The apostles offered Jesus 'post resurrection appearances as “many convincing proofs” (Acts 1:3). The Resurrection was the catalyst for their powerful fearless preaching of Christ as the Son of God (Acts. 2:22-36; 4:2,10; 13:32-41; 17:1-4,22-31).

    He rose just as He said he would- on the 3rd day.

    THE TIME OF THE CRUCIFIXION

    Is there a contradiction between Mark’s account and John’s of the timing of Jesus death?

    Darkness was over the land Lk.23:44 Now it was the 6th hour (12:00) and there was darkness over all the earth until the 9th hr. (3:00) Mk.15:33 and Mt.27:45 state the same thing.

    Mk.15:25: “Now it was the 3rd hour and they crucified him.”

    John 19:14: “It was about the 6th hour he was on trial.”

    Mark in his text tells us the crucifixion took place on the 3rd hour using the Jewish reckoning of time, which means around 9 AM in the morning. The Jews measured time by breaking the day into 12 hours twice, with an additional 4 watches in each 12 hour period. The new day in Jewish time began at sunset and the morning began at sun up approx.6 AM.

    The apparent contradiction with John’s writing can be easily solved through the centuries of time. It would be hard to accept that John with the other Gospels written over a period of 20 years together, wrote his last with a span of 30 more years later would introduce an independent reckoning of his own. And not taking into account what was already handwritten and bring confusion in the records.

    What we need to understand is that John is writing from Asia Minor at least 30 years after the events transpired 70-95 A.D. When John wrote his Gospel the Jewish temple was destroyed and the nation was scattered. So everyone was now under Roman influence, whereas before they existed partly under Rome still functioning as Israel. So when he wrote there was no more Jewish standard of time only Roman. So John used the official Roman mode of computing time. The 6th hour would be 6 AM as they counted the day from 12 midnight as we still do today. This would coincide exactly with the other writers who used the Jewish reckoning of time. The trial was early in the morning and the crucifixion approximately began at 9:00 in the morning lasting until 3 in the afternoon. So John consistently used Roman time while the other Gospel writers use the Jewish standard. Therefore there is no conflict in the accounts.
    http://www.letusreason.org/Doct10.htm
     

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