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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ShotGunWillie, Sep 15, 2009.
Yes, Jesus didn't discriminate. He treated a same-sex fornicator the same as any other sinner, and viewed their sin the same way he woudl view anyone else's sin.
Jeesh!! Their interpretation of Scripture is so screwed up that I seriously question the validity of their church! ALL have sinned - and all of us are sinners. There is no greater sin than another in light of salvation - every single sin is enough to separate us from Christ.
It is really a disservice to promote what they are promoting because they're making it seem that you can be gay and be saved - and continue in your lifestyle with Jesus keeping His arms open, yet the truth is very different. It's sad when churches get so off of Scripture that they have to make it up.
Nope, Jesus didn't discriminate, sin was sin, and all are sinners, there was no political correctness about Him, sexual sin is still sin, same as it was when Jesus walked the earth. Nowadays christians want to play games and tell us sin is ok.
Let's back up a bit. Let's not confuse salvation with not sinning. You CAN be gay and saved. You can be a liar and be saved. You can be a glutton and be saved. You can be an idle chatter and be saved.
But the fact that you can sin and be saved does not mean it's okay to sin after salvation, nor does it mean that salvation equals righteousness. A person who contines to fornicate, lie, overeat, and gossip might be saved, but they are unrighteous.
Are you sure about this statement? Can you be saved and be a serial murderer? Can you be saved and molest children?
Yes, absolutely. Scripture is clear on that. If Jesus can save scumbags like a child molester or seriel killer, he can save people like you and me.
If "not sinning" is the requisite for salvation, then none are saved. Neither them, nor you, nor I.
The pro-homosexual hermeneutic is so vapid it barely requires a response. Yet they are using smoke and mirrors to attempt to subvert the biblical text.
Their arguments are ridiculous and full of exegetical fallacies. I am glad to read this article because it has given me another course of study to make myself prepared.
It's more an issue of being given an inch, and taking a mile. The inch is the notion that Jesus doesn't discriminate between sins or sinners. The mile is the notion that a particular sin isn't sin. That's a clear misapplication of scripture.
so you, nor Jesus, expects people to change? What about the new creation, means nothing? We just accept people's sins, they aren't responsible for that, just keep going like always?
When I say that they think they can be gay and Christian, I mean that they can continue to embrace and celebrate that lifestyle without having to change. Of course they can be gay and come to know Jesus but quite certainly, He will convict them of their sin and they cannot grow but continue in that lifestyle. There's a big difference.
Of course we change. The definition of "repent" means to change. It doesn't however, mean "to not sin". Whether we sin or not is not a measurement of salvation. Our attitude towards our sin is usually a good measurement.
Picture riding a bycicle, and the act of sinning is falling off the bike. An unsaved person will fall, and then choose to walk instead. The saved person, otoh, chooses to get back on the bike. Repenting doesn't mean we don't fall. Repenting means we try not to fall, but when we fall, we get back up and keep going.
On the contrary, continual sinning affects our righteousness, which is a separate issue from our salvation.
Yes, I concur, whether it's a sexual sin, covetous sin, or any other sort of sin.
We should also recognize that conviction is a process, not an event. The struggle againt sin is often a lifelong struggle. It can sometimes take years for a person to be fully convicted from a lifestyle sin. Alcohol and drug addictions are good examples.
The example you provided of riding a bicycle is not actually close to this topic at all. By using your example in comparison to the homosexual lifestyle you would have to say this, then while riding your bike you purposely rode it off of a cliff.
To be a somdomite it takes some going out of your way to get that done, dontcha think. It's not like hitting yourself with a hammer and then dropping some language down as a habitual response.
Can a gay person be saved, yes, can a saved person be gay, no.
You cannot engage in homos*xual avtivity and be saved for very long. The Holy Ghost will never leave you there.You cannot be saved and believe homosexuality is ok anymore than you can believe any other sin is ok. We may struggle with sin but we always know sin is sin.Those who try hard to be accepted as gay and saved are only fooling themselves. Scripture is clear.
Since scripture says there's no sin that can't be forgiven, one cannot ride one's bike off a cliff. As for "purposefully", regardless of the sin, we usually don't sin on accident.
Well, first of all, a "sodomote" is not the biblical definition of a homesexual. But to your point, any sexual sin requires "going out of one's way". Many nonsexual sins require going out of one's way.
That's not consistent with scripture. According to scripture, can a sinning person be saved? Yes. Cab a saved person sin? Yes. Is it okay for a saved person to sin? Absolutely not.
It sounds like you're saying you can lose your salvation. That's probably a topic better elft for a different thread. That would certainly hijack this thread. To sum up, though, what it sounds like you're saying is, if one can lose their salvation, then you cannot engage in sin indefinitely and retain your salvation. If a person doesn't lose their salvation, then one's sinful acts post salvation do nto jeopardize that salvation. That woudl definitely make for an interesting discussion, but it's probably better in a thread of its own.
Yes, absolutely 100%.
I think we differ greatly in this area because you believe something entirely different than I.
I think that comparing the sin of homosexuality to that of stealing a pack of bubble gum is a grave mistake. I also think that you are leading others to believe that if they are gay, then saved, they can gay'it up again, just maybe not as often.
Can a saved person molest children after accepting Christ as their Savior? Can a saved person begin their serial murder spree after accepting Christ as their Savior? NO
Please cure me of my ignorance, what is the definition?
It was poorly worded one cannot lose their salvation 1 Peter 1:3-5 I intended to say you cannot be saved and enjoy homosexual activity for very long.
I don't think your addressing what I said. I did not say gays could not be saved. however when anyone is saved they can not contune in thier lifestyle of sin, thats where change come sin, and it's change God does, not us. Too many want to make excusses to say it's ok if a person never changes, never obeys God. You can be a christian while contuning to approve sinful lifestyles.
Sin, and a lifetsyle of sin are two different things. One can sin on occasion, yet not approve it by their lifestyle, or one can live a lifestyle of contuning approval of sin. makes a difference.
The bible makes a destinction between sexual sins and other sins. There can be no comparision.
Yet some approve sexual sins in christians.