Jesus fulfilled the law?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Caissie, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. Caissie

    Caissie
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    I keep hearing that Jesus fulfilled the law. Where does it say that. The only verse people keep throwing at me to say that he fulfilled the law is:
    Matthew 5:17
    17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    but wait...there is more (they always cut it off there)
    18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    This does not say Jesus fulfilled the law, it says he came to fulfil the law. Jesus fulfilled parts of the law already, like the Spring Feast (Passover etc.) and when he comes back, he will fulfill the rest of the law, like the Fall feasts (Trumpets, etc.)

    Can anyone show Biblical proof that Jesus has already fulfilled the law?
     
  2. Grasshopper

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    one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    1.If Jesus didn't fulfill the Law, then it is still in effect. It all stays or goes together.

    2. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law and did not, then He failed. This would seem to violate John 17:4.
     
  3. mountainrun

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    Caissie, the following verses will establish that more than just a jot or tittle of the law has indeed passed away, therefore Jesus must have fulfilled the Law.

    It may be that we do not precisely understand the meaning of His words in Matthew 5:17 in regards to exactly what He would fulfill, but since the Bible tells us that the Law has "passed away"
    He must have done what He needed to do.

    ===============================

    Collossians 2:12-14. ...He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

    Galatians 3:19. What, then was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgression
    UNTIL THE SEED TO WHOM THE PROMISE REFERRED HAD COME.

    23: Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
    24: So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
    25: Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

    Ephesians 2:15.. by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.

    Hebrews 7:18. The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless {for the law made nothing perfect}, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

    13. By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
    ===============================

    MR
     
  4. StraightAndNarrow

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    Jesus fulfilled the law IN HIS OWN LIFE AND MINISTRY. We are saved through grace but He has called us to not just believe on Him but to pick up our cross and FOLLOW HIM. His perfect life is our goal and inspiration.

    The law still exists but meeting the requirements of the law, which is impossible for the unsaved and the saved, is still our goal because this would make our lives more like the life of our Lord. We will continue to sin but sin must be repented of and we must get back on the right path.

    In Romans 6 Paul said:

    Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
    Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.
    Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Jesus brought us the new law.

    Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    After being saved by grace this is the way we are taught (commanded) to live our lives.
     
  5. Caissie

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    He did not fail, he is just not finished yet. He will fulfill the feast of trumpets, then the Day of Atonement, then the Feast of Tabernacles when he comes back.
     
  6. donnA

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    If Jesus hasn't finshed none of us are going to heaven, becasue salvation isn't by grace, but law. On the cross Jesus said it is finished. The bible says Jesus is the author and finisher of our salvation, it is finished.
     
  7. mountainrun

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    Cassie, if
    ===========
    18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till ALL be fulfilled.
    ===========

    if Jesus has not fulfilled ALL of the law then every jot and tittle of it is still in effect.

    Correct?

    MR
     
  8. mountainrun

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    Cancel that last post.

    I think I see what Caissie is saying.

    Certain elements of the O.T. have not yet been fulfilled and have therefore not passed away.

    Everything that has been fulfilled to this point has passed away, which is almost everything.

    The civil law is no longer in effect.
    It's purpose was to keep the Jews separate from the Gentiles and we are all now one in Christ.

    Obviously, Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial law and it has passed away.

    If I'm not assessing your position correctly here, please correct me, Caissie.

    MR
     
  9. Daniel David

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    For the sake of a theological discussion, I think it is helpful to distinguish between the Old Covenant, and the Old Testament, even though they are the same thing.

    The Old Covenant has been abolished. However, the NT is clear that the prophecies regarding the Christ's suffering have been fulfilled.
     
  10. mountainrun

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    I disagree, Daniel.
    The Old Covenant is contained in the Old Testament. They are not the same thing.

    It IS clear that the Old Covenant is abolished, though.

    It is also clear that not all things have been fulfilled. I refer specifically to the prophecies which remain to be filled.

    Rev. 17:17. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.

    I don't agree with Cassie that everything has to be fulfilled by Jesus, only those things pertaining to Him.

    However, ALL things WILL be fulfilled in time.

    MR
     
  11. Caissie

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    I am sure Jesus said the same thing when his mom asked him if his chores were done, but does that mean he was saying that the law had been fulfilled? The reason why he said, "It is finished" is because those were the last words used by the high priest to "finish" the Passover.

    When you learn about the feasts, you will know more about the shadows. These feast days are high sabbaths. Colossians 2:16-17 say that the sabbaths are a shadow of things to come. Someone tell me what the shadow is for the feast of Tabernacles (which is apart of the law), then who will fulfill that (I know, I just want you to do some research). Here is some research I have done on how Jesus fulfilled the shadow of the Passover.

    Here are just some of the many, many ways that Christ fulfilled the role of the Passover lamb.

    For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast...[1 Corinthians 5:7-8]


    1. The Jews call the Passover, "the festival of redemption". [The Jewish Festivals; by Hayyim Schauss]

    Christ is our Redeemer [Galations 3:13, Titus 2:13-14, and many more].

    2. The Passover lamb had to be killed at 3 pm on the first month of the holy calendar (14th day of Nissan).

    Christ died at 3 pm on the first month of the holy calendar. (Matthew 27:45-50)


    3. The Passover lamb had to be killed in Jerusalem, but outside of the city gates. (Deuteronomy 16:5-6, then look at 2 Kings 21:4)

    Christ was killed in Jerusalem, but outside of the city gates. (John 19:16-19, Hebrews 13:10-13)


    4. The Passover lamb must be unblemished. (Exodus 12:5)

    Christ was unblemished (1 Peter 1:18-20)
    Also, when Pilate said, "I find no fault in him." [John 19:4, 6] he was essentially saying, that Christ was without blemish.


    5. The whole assembly shall kill the Passover lamb. (Exodus 12:6)

    Everyone who has ever sinned [which means everyone] is responsible for killing Christ.


    6. Not a bone on the Passover lamb was to be broken.[Exodus 12:46]

    Not a bone on Christ was broken.[John 19:33-36]


    7. The Jews would put their name on their lamb

    Go here to see how God put His name on His Lamb!: http://www.beitlechem.net/name.htm (This is real cool!)

    8. In preparation of the Passover, the Jews would go through their house in search for leaven (leaven represents sin [Matthew 16:6-12, Luke 12:1, 1 Corinthians 5:2-8]) and clean all the leaven from their house.

    In Matthew 21:1-13, you can see that Jesus went into Jerusalem, then cast out the thieves from the temple. So, that would mean that at the same time the Jews were cleaning the leaven from their houses, God was cleaning the leaven (sin) from His house.


    9. The last words from the high priest as he cut the Passover lamb's throat was "It is finished" [The Seven Festivals of the Messiah; by Eddie Chumney]

    "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished': and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." [John 19:30]

    That means that at the same time that the high priest was saying "It is finished" (referring to the Passover sacrifice), The High Priest (Jesus) was saying the exact words (referring to The Passover sacrifice)!


    10. "In Jesus' day, vinegar was soured wine, plain and unmixed, This was given to Jesus when He said, "I thirst!" (John 19:28-30) This was simultaneously spoken by the high priest on the temple mount." [The Passion What does it Mean; by Dr. Bree Keyton]

    11. "The highest point in the evolution of the Pesach (Passover) came in the last century of the second Temple, when the Jews suffered from the heavy oppression of the Romans. It was during this period that the Messianic hope flamed up, and in the minds of the Jews the deliverance of the future became bound up with the first redemption in Jewish history: the deliverance from Egypt...This belief gained added strength in this period of Roman occupation and oppression. Jews began to believe that the Messiah would be a second Moses and would free the Jews the self-same eve, the eve of Pesach (Passover). So Pesach (Passover) became the festival of the second as well as the first redemption;... Jewish hearts beat faster on the eve of Pesach (Passover), beat with the hope that this night the Jews would be freed from bondage of Rome, just as their ancestors were released from Egyptian slavery." [The Jewish Festivals; by Hayyim Schauss]

    The really awesome thing is that at the same time when the Jews were looking so hard for the Messiah to bring the second redemption on Passover eve, the Messiah did bring the second redemption on Passover eve!


    12. The blood of the Passover lamb was put on the doorposts for death to pass over their houses.

    When we accept God's perfect sacrifice for our sins, we enter into God's family. By faith, we walk though the doorway into God's house, through the blood of The Lamb (Christ) that is on the doorposts, and death will pass over us!


    There is much more on this topic. You can go to my website www.biblestuff.freerovin.com (click on Christ is our Passover) to get some more links to get more info.

    So, I just showed you how Christ fulfilled the Passover (a part of the law), when you research the fall feasts, you will see that Christ will fulfill those soon. So, Christ has not fulfilled the law yet.
     
  12. Grasshopper

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    Well if not, then none of it has passed and we are still under the Law. It all goes or stays. You can't have some gone and some not.
     
  13. Caissie

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    Well if not, then none of it has passed and we are still under the Law. It all goes or stays. You can't have some gone and some not. </font>[/QUOTE]You are right. I never said the law was abolished either.
    Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

    To my knowledge, heaven and earth have not passed yet. So one jot or one tittle has not passed from the law.
     
  14. Grasshopper

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    Depends on what is meant by heaven and earth.
     
  15. Caissie

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    that sounds like when Bill Clinton said something like...."that depends on what the definition of 'is', is."

    I believe when it says "heaven and earth", it means....."heaven and earth". What do you think it means?
     
  16. mountainrun

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    Are you saying that the law is still in effect, Caissie?

    If so, we must still offer sacrifice for our sins.

    MR
     
  17. chandler

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    I'm really not understanding where you are going with us. It is clear that the law has passed away in regards to salvation. Christ was the sacrifice once and for all bringing reconciliation to God. May I also remind us that just because it has not "happened" in the eyes and understanding of humans, although it should since we have been given the The Revelation of Jesus Christ, to God it is emminent. I think what we have here is a play on words and misunderstanding. If the law had not been fulfilled then like someone else mentioned, we would need to go to the temples and sacrifice again. Maybe you are approaching this thought the wrong way.
     
  18. Caissie

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    What kind of question is this? First, the sacrifices never washed away the sins in the first place. They too were shadows. Yes, the law is in effect. And obviously we do not have to sacrifice for sins because the temple is destroyed. How can you make a sacrifice without a temple or a Levitical Priest? You could not make a sacrifice even if you wanted to.
     
  19. Caissie

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    Revelation 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (KJV)

    Matthew 19:16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

    17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

    19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    (hmmm....it looks like Jesus is quoting right out of the law here. Are any of these laws abolished?)

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

    10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    We can test some of the laws of God like we can test the laws of science. To find out if the law of gravity was nailed to the cross, we can drop things.

    You see, every law has a penalty (or it wouldn't be a law, it would be a suggestion). When you break the speed limit law, the penalty is a fine.
    Let us test some of the commandments to see if they are in effect:

    1. It was a health law to not drink blood. The penalty is bad health and death before your time.
    America still drains the blood from the cow before they butcher it. Just like God told us to do to stay healthy, we do that today because it is unhealthy to drink blood. So, obviously, that law was not nailed to the cross.
    Why would God take away a law but keep the penalties in force?

    2. The Law Concerning Leprous (Mold in the )Houses
    Leviticus 14:33 And the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: 34"When you have come into the land of Canaan, which I give you as a possession, and I put the leprous plague [Decomposition by mildew, mold, dry rot, etc., and so in verses 34-53 ] in a house in the land of your possession, 35and he who owns the house comes and tells the priest, saying, "It seems to me that there is some plague in the house,' 36then the priest shall command that they empty the house, before the priest goes into it to examine the plague, that all that is in the house may not be made unclean; and afterward the priest shall go in to examine the house. 37And he shall examine the plague; and indeed if the plague is on the walls of the house with ingrained streaks, greenish or reddish, which appear to be deep in the wall, 38then the priest shall go out of the house, to the door of the house, and shut up the house seven days. 39And the priest shall come again on the seventh day and look; and indeed if the plague has spread on the walls of the house, 40then the priest shall command that they take away the stones in which is the plague, and they shall cast them into an unclean place outside the city. 41And he shall cause the house to be scraped inside, all around, and the dust that they scrape off they shall pour out in an unclean place outside the city. 42Then they shall take other stones and put them in the place of those stones, and he shall take other mortar and plaster the house.

    Did you know that we still practice that way of cleaning houses from mold today. I have a friend that is currently doing exactly this. In a regulation book he has, the book even quoted the above verse.

    3. My dad went to the doctor last year. The doctor told him to not eat pork or lobster. Well, God told him that too. Maybe if he listened better, he wouldn't of had to go to the doctor. Is it a coincidence that both the foods the doctor told him to stay away from are unclean?

    4. Did you know that if you eat a lot of hamburgers and fried foods that you will get fat, and possibly die before your time from numerous possibility of things like a stroke or some other failure in your body. Did you know that God said when you kill the cow to separate the fat and do not eat the fat. Today, even though we think some of God's laws were smart, we do not obey that law. We chop up the fat and grind it into hamburgers. Then, with the leftover grease we cook french fries and fried chicken. Just imagine how much healthier we would be if we just practiced this law. This law was given to us so we can stay healthy, if this law was nailed to the cross, the penalty should have also been nailed to the cross. I still see a penalty.


    Deuteronomy 7:12-15 "Then it shall come to pass, because you listen to these judgments, and keep and do them, that the LORD your God will keep with you the covenant and the mercy which He swore to your fathers. 13And He will love you and bless you and multiply you; He will also bless the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your land, your grain and your new wine and your oil, the increase of your cattle and the offspring of your flock, in the land of which He swore to your fathers to give you. 14You shall be blessed above all peoples; there shall not be a male or female barren among you or among your livestock. 15And the LORD will take away from you all sickness, and will afflict you with none of the terrible diseases (notice God did not say plagues) of Egypt which you have known,

    (hmmm....it looks like, by reading the above verses, that if we keep his laws we would stay healthy. I see a lot of people breaking his laws today. I also see a lot of unhealthy people. Even the ones that look healthy are still dieing early from strokes or cancer. Hamburgers, french fries, and fried foods have become very popular in the last 50 years. So has cancer, strokes, and doctor bills.

    This is not classified as a health law, but I it is another law that obviously has not been nailed to the cross.

    5. Even farmers can tell you that you can't plant the same crop, year after year in the same location. God said that too. Wow, maybe God knows what he is talking about. Although today, we get greedy for money and think we are smarter than God. So, instead of practicing the land sabbath, we practice crop rotation (usually every 7th year) and fertilizer and pesticides. It would have been healthier and cheaper just to listen to God and practice the land sabbath. Again, I see that the penalty is still in force. Why would God take away a law, and leave the penalty? If this law was nailed to the cross, we should be able to plant crops year after year with no penalties.

    I am not saying that you have to do these to be saved. Salvation was NEVER by works. I would not even classify these as works because when Jesus comes back he will "reward every man according to his works". I do not think he will give a big reward for not drinking blood, but you sure will have a healthier life if you do not.

    [ February 20, 2005, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Caissie ]
     
  20. God lives within

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    Way to go cassie, nice to see someone doing some thinking
    here is a link to something i read after reading your thread that is a short read about blood sacrafice to get you thinking more
    www.messiahtruth.com/blood.html

    web page

    do you know if anyone still makes blood sacrifices today? just wondering?

    btw your last post makes me want to pay more attention to what i eat and do. as reaping and sowing hasnt much really changed over time
    people just dont realize it.
    [​IMG]
     

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