Jesus' Real Birthday

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Dec 10, 2006.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    The other day there was a program on that tried to pinpoint Jesus' birthday using Luke 1 as a guide. The starting point of the theory claims from history that Zacharias was in the division of Abijah, which served around June 20-25. This is where the timeline from the Bible starts. It says John was concieved about then which means he was born around March of the next year. Luke 1:26 says Jesus followed by 6 months, which means He could have been born in late September of some year around 4 BC. Has anyone else ever heard of this, and if not, do you have any ideas when the date might have been?
     
  2. mcdirector

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    All I can add is that I've heard similar theories before.
     
  3. tinytim

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    I know exactly the date of Jesus' birthday....

    I will tell you later!
     
  4. saturneptune

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    I will be looking forward to that, brother Tim.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

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    IMHO the ancients got it right.

    Lev 12:2-3 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Speake vnto the children of Israel, saying,
    If a woman haue conceiued seed, and borne a man child,
    then she shal be vncleane seuen dayes:
    according to the dayes of the separation for
    her infirmitie shall she be vncleane.

    3 And in the eight day, the flesh
    of his foreskinne shall be circumcised.


    1st day - 25 Dec 0001BC
    2ed day - 26 Dec 0001BC
    3ed day - 27 Dec 0001BC
    4th day - 28 Dec 0001BC
    5th day - 29 Dec 0001BC
    6th day - 30 Dec 0001BC
    7th day - 31 Dec 0001BC
    8th day - 01 Jan 0001AD

    IMHO Jesus became an officail Jewish male on
    the first day of the era named for Him:
    January 01, 0001AD. He was born on 25 Dec 0001BC.
     
  6. saturneptune

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    Never heard that before. I always heard that December 25 was a Roman pagen holiday. Your theory is very interesting, and as good as any. Thanks for your input.
     
  7. tinytim

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    OK, I was going to be a smart alec....

    Here goes nothing...


    Jesus' birthday is on the day He was born....

    :tonofbricks: Ouch.... that hurt!!!!!
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    The mishnah (Hebrew commentary on Torah) explains the course of Abijah (when Zach would have been in the Temple and received word of his wife becoming pregnant) would be mid-September.

    Zach would have finished temple duty and Elisabeth pregnant by the end of that month.

    In her 6th month (25 of March) Mary came rushing from Galilee, since the angel that said she was pregnant by the holy Spirit said the proof would be that Mary's cousin Elisabeth was pregnant in her old age.

    Mary stayed until the birth of John was imminent (she had not yet had children, so could not help with the birth) and returned to Nazareth, now 3+ months pregnant and showing.

    The census called for Joseph and her to go to Bethlehem and undoubtedly they went early, not waiting until "full term" to travel. This gracious act freed Mary of the stigma of friends and neighbors as the evidence of her pregnancy prior to marriage was now visible.

    So December 25 works out well and may be one of the few accurate dates/places we can relate to the biblical accounts.
     
  9. ituttut

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    This "theory" is better than what the world believes, and whom they believe. But this you call "theory is very close to fact of Jesus being born in late September or early October. The December day is ridicules and places us in conclusion with the Catholic church, agreeing with their error, and saying we bring Jesus over to pagans Holy Day to celebrate with them the sun god's Birthday. We know Jesus won't mind for He is so loving, and forgiving. Why He won't mind at all. I wouldn't count on it.

    Christmas is a "worldly thing" for just about all the world eats up this Holy Day of the Catholic church. Don't agree with the world and we become that ole meany, scrooge, party pooper, wet blanket, enemy of all that is Holy.

    Just about the whole world observes this Holiday Day, this Holy Day of ours. But that doesn't make them believers. Just about the whole world hates Christ and His blood. Are we to love the things the world loves? They have not come over to our side. We went over to their side, and think Jesus Christ is happy that we join in with the world, celebrating His unknown birthday with the "sun god's" birthday.

    We always want to "do" something, even if it's wrong. We think it is good for it makes us feel good to think we are remembering His Birthday. The problem is He didn't ask us to remember His birthday, or any other day, but Do this in remembrance of me, as oft as you will. He makes this one request of us, and it is not enough, for we want to worship with the world. Jesus we set you up right next to the "sun god" where we can see you better. We want to do as the world does. We want to "add" to your Word for we know you just forgot to tell us when you (God) were born. Don't you know we observe birthdays down here? How could you forget or not know our customs?


     
  10. Gwyneth

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    D.o.b.

    Jesus` date of birth matters not - what matters is that HE LIVES.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    Everyone here realizes that. The purpose of this thread is pure curiosity and discussion. No one thinks the correct date on this has anything to do of substance with the Gospel.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    I agree, wholeheartedly. But allow me to add:

    He came, He redeemed, and He is coming again.:jesus:
     
  13. Amy.G

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    Totally agree. We are a curious folk. Jesus' real birthday is the day He was born! :tongue3: We can ALL agree that was a glorious day!
     
  14. Helen

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    The course of Abia or Abijah is the eighth course of the year (each course being one week long). Their priestly year stated in the month of Nisan, which is approximately March/April on our current calendars. By the time the Passover and Feast of Weeks are taken out of the calendar, Zachariah would have been attending at the Temple in the month of June. That means that John was probably born in the spring of the following year. Jesus, six months after that, would have been born in the autumn.

    Which year? Luke pinpoints for us the registration required by Augustus in concert with the first time Quirinius (also known as Cyrenius) was governor of Syria (he was governor twice, once from 6-1 BC. Then he was appointed Advosor to Gaius Caesar, and was governor again from 6-7 AD).

    In February of 2 BC, Caesar Augustus was given the title of Pater Patriae, or Father of the Country. He had refused that title until Roman citizens from all over the empire had agreed to it. Thus, the registration of 3 BC, taken in the late summer and autumn of that year was not only a registration of allegience to Caesar (done once every five years), but also the approval of this new title for him. Since he accepted the title in early 2 BC, we know that the registration was finished by then.

    We know from historical records that the registration took place in the late summer and early autumn of 3 BC. Luke tells us that Mary was heavy with child when they arrived in Bethlehem, which means, at the very least, that she was in her third trimester. We know she did not arrive months early, for 'there was no room in the "kataluma"', often mistranslated 'inn.' Kataluma is 'guest room' which every house had. In other words, Bethlehem was already crowded to overflowing.

    We can use these evidences and others, both biblical and extra-biblical to pinpoint Jesus' birth not only to the autumn of 3 BC, but to sometime between September 10 and 25 of that month. If He was born on the 14 of that month in that year, and circumcised eight days later, then, interestingly, He shed His first blood on that year's Day of Atonement.
     
  15. Smoky

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    It is interesting to note that some of the early Christian Fathers wrote about the actual existance, during their times, of the tax records of Mary and Joseph when they went to Bethleham to register. They were kept as official documents in the city of Rome. Justin Martyr (100-165) in his Apology stated to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius that "Jesus was born at Bethlehem, as you can ascertain from the registers of the taxing." (Christmas Reconsidered, by Ralph Woodrow) Tertullian (160- 250) spoke of "the census of Augustus- that most faithful witness of the Lord's nativity, kept in the archives of Rome" (Ibid) Later, John Chrysostom taught that it was on the day of Atonement that Zacharias received the angelic announcement that he would have a son, placing the conception of John in late September, leading to a December birth! Chrysostom advocated a December 25 date for the birth of Christ and claimed that it could be backed up by the actual census/tax records of the Holy Family when they registered in Bethlehem! (ibid)

    Those who claim that Christian's aquired December 25 from the birthday of the sun god may have it backwards. God created the seasons, and he may have chosen that time of year when the days began to get longer and bring more light into the world as the perfect time for the birthday of his Son. Heathens have always copied from the true religion and not vice versa.
     
  16. mountainrun

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    Dr. Bob and Helen, you are both correct about the time of Zechariah's service, even though you are six months apart, since the divisions served twice a year, plus an extra week on the Feast Days.
    {Pentecost was the week following Zechariah's spring service and he would have remained an extra week...I think.}
    We have March/April and September/October.
    But can it be determined at which cycle he was notified of his impending fatherhood?

    I lean toward M/A.

    MR
     
    #16 mountainrun, Dec 11, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2006
  17. Helen

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    I think the fact that the registration took place in the late summer and autumn of 3 BC and that Mary was heavy with child then indicates that John had been born the previous spring, which means his father was on duty the summer before.
     
  18. David Lamb

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    I've not heard that particular argument before, but I understand that the shepherds would not have been out at night on the hillsides with their sheep in December. They were brought down from the hills in mid-to-late October or early November, and kept under cover.

    Also, I have often seen it said that 25th December was chosen so that Christians had something to celebrate when their pagan neighbours were celebrating their midwinter festivals of Saturnalia and Brumalia.

    Of course the bible has no command to celebrate a the birth of Jesus on a particular day.

    Every blessing,
     
  19. ituttut

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    Very good facts Helen. Hard to get any closer than this, and plain common sense should prevail. We can also go backward and be close to what you present.

    A few other little known facts are presented in His Word, and the world wants to keep them little known. Christians should know the truths, but it's much easier to believe man, especially some of those "fathers" of old. We know apostasy was moving into the church even while the Apostles lived.

    We know shepherds were in the fields taking care of the flocks the night Jesus was born. There wasn't any room in the inn due to the crowd, but there wasn't any crowd in the "manger". Those housed where the manger was,were out in the mountains, having no use to be feed and housed at the time Joseph and Mary arrived. The animals were still out. The manger would have been filled in the winter, for that is where the flocks were feed and housed during the wintertime. From sometime beginning in October, the flocks were brought from the mountains and corralled until April. God's timing is always perfect. Mary couldn't travel too fast being pregnant so the late arrival forced the manger scene. God knew this, and knew Jesus would be birthed in that particular manger. God knew the trough would have no feed in it during the first part of October.

    Luke lets us know the whole world is to be taxed, and everyone in their own City. Why would we ever entertain the idea Caesar Augustus would do such an idiotic thing as have people traveling all over the world in the winter time? I believe some of these little "tid-bits" are in His Word for a purpose. These should keep us from believing a lie.

    Jesus didn't ask us to remember his birthday, and didn't mean for us to or he would said so, and we would know the exact day he was born. When we start worshiping the "baby", it is also very easy to start worshiping the mother. She will evidently become known to many as the "mother of God".

    We are within reason the earthly ministry of Jesus was in duration of three and a half years. On the fourteenth day in the month of Nisan (April) on a Wednesday we can go back three and a half years when Jesus was 30 years old. These calculations put His birth in the first part of October. When John the Baptist came out of the wilderness, preaching to Israel they were to "repent, and be water baptized for the remission of their sins", I doubt he would have had many takers in the cold of winter.
     
  20. Bobby

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    Correct!

    Shepards couldn't have been out in the cold of dec. 25th watching there flocks by night...far too cold. There is many reasond why it wasnt 25th of dec. but is the simpleist one.

    Here a great teaching message about the matter!

    Click santa:
    [​IMG]


    Amen!!!!!!!
    Alot less Christmas and alot more Christ would do alot more good to professing Christians!:thumbsup:

    I agree with late September/ early October.
     

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