Jesus said that faith is a work!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JSM17, Aug 2, 2009.

  1. JSM17

    JSM17
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    Faith is work, our Lord said so. The people asked what shall we do! Jesus had a great opportunity to correct them, but He did not say to them " You cannot do any work", He told them to believe in Him, this is the work of God!

    Christ responded: “This is the work of God (i.e., from God – a genitive of source), that you believe on him whom he has sent” (6:29).

    It is not God who believes for you, yet He is the source in which we can believe, but it is the people who must put their trust in Christ.

    When the Philippian Jailor asked "WHAT MUST WE DO?" Maybe Paul should have told him: "There is nothing you can do" and then maybe Jesus should have said the same thing.
     
  2. Jedi Knight

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    I find you lack of faith disturbing.
     
  3. Alive in Christ

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    Christ was getting across to them (and to us) the truth that the "work", that they (and us) were and are so detirmined to "do" in order to merit salvation is...actually...a non-work.

    Simple faith in Christ.

    It would be as if someone mistakenly thought that I was driving a broken down 1964 Chevy. So they come up to me and ask if they could see my 40 year old broke down Chevy.

    And I say:

    "Ha! Sure, here is my broke down Chevy"...

    As I point to the the classic Porche 911 sports car I actually drove.
     
    #3 Alive in Christ, Aug 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 2, 2009
  4. annsni

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    In VBS this week, one of my workers was an elderly woman who got lightheaded. I made her sit down with some cold water and then gave her some cheese and crackers and a piece of fruit. She told me that she needed to get up to work and I told her "The only work you're doing is sitting there and getting better." Now, is what I told her to do "work"? No. But that was my point. It's the same with what Jesus said. The only work we need to do is actually a non-work.
     
  5. Marcia

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    1) Jesus said "This is the work of God," not man.

    2) Using the word "work" here is not the same as salvation by works.

    3) Faith and works are consistently contrasted in the NT.

    But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. Rom. 11:6

    nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. Gal. 2:16

    You really should read the book of Galatians.
     
  6. just-want-peace

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    Marcia sez:
    Herein lies much, if not most of the problem; isolating parts of scripture from the over-all.

    John 8:3-5 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"

    Luke 10:37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
    Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

    Now who can deny that adultery is OK by His own words - IF WE SELECTIVELY APPLY SCRIPTURE?

    Such is the stuff cults are made of.
     
  7. JSM17

    JSM17
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    Alive in Christ worte:
    So putting your trust in Christ and turning from your ways and believing in Christ is NOT something you actually have to do?

    Marcia Wrote;
    Romans and Galatians are talking about doing the works of the Law to merit salvation. It is not refering to obeying the commands of Jesus to Believe, repent and so on. Maybe we should deal with the text instead of running from it.

    Annsni Wrote:
    That makes no no sense.

    Besides no one actually is using the context to prove their point.

    Jesus brings up works in verse 27. Did Jesus suggest that they do no work?

    John 6:26-29

    26 Jesus answered them and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

    27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him."

    He says Labor for the food which endures!

    28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"

    Jesus could easily tell them that they cannot do any works that will benefit faith in Christ.

    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
    NKJV

    That YOU believe in Him whom He sent, this is the work of God!
    Do we believe and in turn do this work or does god do this work for us?
     
  8. Marcia

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    The point of Romans and Galatians and the whole NT is that salvation is by faith.

    It such an essential point of the Bible that anything else contrary to this has been clearly refuted.

    I don't have time to keep on with this; it seems you are choosing to reject salvation by grace through faith alone. You have the scriptures and people here have tried to show you the problems with what you bring up, but you refuse to see the truth. There is still time as long as you live, so I hope you do see the truth.
     
  9. Johnv

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    Context, context, context!!!!! In the OP, Jesus is not in any way implying that a particular work earns a person salvation. If you read the FULL PASSAGE, you'll see what Jesus is referriing to:

    Jesus is referring to the fact that his followers were coming to see him, not to listen to what he had to say, but because they knew there was food there. Jesus is telling them to come to him for the spiritual food he was serving, and not just for the earthly food they were seeking.
     
  10. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    JSM...

    Not to be saved it isnt. We do NOT put our faith in Christ and turn from our sinful ways in order to be saved.

    1st, that would be a works based salvation, and God condemns that false gospel.

    2ndly, have you ceased all your sinning? No? Then you havent been saved yet, and you never will. And neither will I. Nor anyone else on this board, if that is what we have to do to be saved.

    The truth is that we are eternally justified in Gods sight through faith in Christ alone.

    It is AFTER we are born again..through faith alone..that we begin the lifetime of sanctification. Turning from sin. Living for God. Becoming new EXPERIENTIALLY.

    We will be about that task...putting off the old, and putting on the new...for the rest of out earthly lives.

    Hope that helps.

    :godisgood:
     
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    At any rate, you need to learn how to handle Scripture. Let Scripture speak for itself, not your church traditions.
     
  12. JSM17

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    I do, Jesus simply tells them the work that they should do, believe in Him whom the Father has sent.

    Faith takes work, it does not take a genius to figure this out, in order for you to believe, you must listen or read the word of God, you have to make a choice about whether you will believe the evidence presented, putting your trust takes work, it is something that you have to do.

    I take the words of the Lord just as He said them:

    John 6:26-29

    26 Jesus answered them and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

    27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him."

    He says Labor for the food which endures!

    28 Then they said to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"

    29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."NKJV


    So answer this, is the work of God all God or does man have to do something in order to believe?

    THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD does this refer to God doing it or man? Plain and simple just answer the question.
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

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    But I think an important point is missed. If you believe in something don't you act on it? So it stands to reason that if you don't believe you don't act on it. So to believe in Jesus is to act on that believe as James points out. Jesus also said to abide in him.
     
  14. Johnv

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    Good point. It's probably prudent that we all have an understanding of what a "work" is iin regards to common scriptural thought.

    When a person referrs to works-based salvation, they are usually referring to an act which, upon completion, earns a person salvation. The concept of salvation by faith alone dictates that there is nothing a person can do to earn salvation, or in the very least, guarantee that a person's works have sufficiently earned a person salvation. If salvation is, say, a boat, the concept of salvation by faith alone says you can't earn the boat; the boat is a free gift.

    Now, what seems to be the issue here is one of getting in the boat. All are in agreement that getting into the boat is required. But is getting into the boat a work that earns a person the boat? No, it is not. It is an act by which the person receives his free gift of the boat. That act can be defined as a work, but it is not a work that earns someone salvation.

    So, in scripture, Jesus says to a follower "get in the boat", but getting in the boat doesn't earn the follower salvation. It's simply an act which allows him to receive it.
     
  15. Thinkingstuff

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    Very good analogy. I think I will steal it and not referrence you. Is that ok?
     
  16. Johnv

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    Heheh! Sure. I actually stole it from the Mrs, who teaches religion in middle school.
     
  17. TCGreek

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    Here's the verse in question from the TNIV:

    Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

    Again, Jesus is playing off what they said in the previous verse: they wanted to know what works God requires.

    Nowhere is believing in Jesus presented as a work. You simply cannot build your case on this one verse.

    Besides, you're failing to appreciate the irony of the text.
     
  18. JSM17

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    Perhaps I am failing to appreciate the irony, yet I am taking the passage at point blank.

    I am not creating a doctrine on the one passage, I am merly striving to understand the point Jesus is making about the work of God.

    Even apart from this passage, I still must actually believe, put my trust into, and actually take the evidence presented and faith is developed.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but again is it faith that I must come too, is believing something I must do?

    Perhaps I have missed the point, but I have been looking at this scripture and the context for a while trying to see others points about faith not being a work of God, I do not see how it cannot be.
     
  19. TCGreek

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    Why can't you appreciate Jesus' use of the term "work" in this context?
     
  20. JSM17

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    Its not that I cannot appreciate the use of the term, its just that I do not see the irony that you spoke of.

    This is the work of God, again is it all on God to do for us or must we do something? Yes, we do or no we do not.

    Again I am not basing belief as a work on one verse, I will bring more verses to the post showing this but I was trying to keep it on this verse. Sometimes when you jump around to other scriptures you can be pegged as not using the context, yet if you stay in the context some say that your setting up your whole argument on one verse.
     

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