Jesus said that he will build his Church/ Local Assembly or Body of Christ?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Yeshua1, Nov 20, 2013.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    was He referring to those standing there hearing his words, or to the Body of His to still come future?
     
  2. percho

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    All I know is build is in the future tense.

    No one present at that statement was presently in that church yet one would become the stone the builders rejected, the head of the corner.

    That stone would be, "Thou are the Christ the Son of the living God".
     
  3. HankD

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    I would say Amen! to that percho but it might invoke some INCOMING!
    So I'll refrain.

    HankD
     
  4. Yeshua1

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    Wouldn't the Church jesus described and bult though be all of those saved since His ministry unto the Second Coming?

    that he knew the Church as all of the redeemed, not indivial local churches, but the individual members of His Church sitting in those pews?
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    He said that "upon this rock (petras = large stone, as opposed to Petros = Peter), I will build My church." What was He talking about?

    He was talking about the "large stone" of faith that Peter had just expressed.

    Matthew 16, NASB
    16 ... "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."​

    He was talking about building His church. HIM, building His church. The reference was not to anyone there or in the future, other than Himself, building it.
     
  6. percho

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    When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
    But whom say ye that I am? ----- I Jesus.

    And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
    And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    I believe the Anointed Prophet like unto Moses is saying, Thus saith the LORD God, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, upon that Rock I God the Father will build My church.

    This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. From Acts 2:32,33,36
    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:33
    Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Acts 4:10,11 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:18


    I do not know how it could be any clearer than that God the Father is building his church with Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of the living God being the first stone of that church being laid by washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit through resurrection incorruptible.

    Then and only then could (see John 16:7) the Spirit of God be, shed or poured upon, given to those called of God and they are added to that stone as living stones.
     
    #6 percho, Nov 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2013
  7. DHK

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    The future is almost always used in things we are about to start immediately. Jesus didn't say now or in three years. He didn't qualify himself.
    When my wife says "I will cook supper..." She will but she usually adds a time factor (now, in two hours). One cannot assume that Jesus had Pentecost in sight.
    All the people for the foundation of the church were right there--Christ, the chief cornerstone, and the 12 apostles. He will build his church (starting now). That is a fair interpretation. The word for church is simply ekklesia or assembly. Were they not assembled?
     
  8. percho

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    And then somewhere around 120 probably, local stones were added to that stone and then about 3000 stones were added and they could have been from; Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


    To answer the OP. Both local and the body of Christ.
     
  9. Allan

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    In your above, even you you cannot get away from the fact that 'future' means it has NOT started yet... and thus Jesus statement regarding building His Church was not yet started.

    Regarding Assembly.. it does basically mean assembly but it also means more than that depending on it's usage so as to identify what 'kind' of assembly and even the purpose of the assembly.-

    Addtionally while you state "One cannot assume that Jesus had Penecost in sight.. the truth is we cannot presume He did not intend it to be Pentacost either, especially in light of the perponderance of scripture pointing to it.

    Another point, is that Jesus followers were not apostles yet. WHEN did they become apostles? At that time they are designated as simply His disciples like everyone else was.

    Thrid point - Jesus did not state 'now' I am building, nor can the language there even be insinuated as such. It is impossible. It would be like saying I'm saved and going to hell. The phrase ' I will build' is the Greek word οἰκοδομέω.. the verb tense here is 'Future'' the 'Mood' of the verb is 'Active'; and 'Voice' is "indicitive".
    The very definition of the Tense 'future' is: The future tense corresponds to the English future, and indicates the contemplated or certain occurrence of an event which has not yet occurred.
    . - emphasis mine

    Now your arguement would make more sense if the verb was in the 'Perfect' tense, making it a past action and on going. However again, it is a 'future' tense meaning it has not happened as of yet.

    Note also "prevail against' (κατισχύω) in the same passage is the same verb parsing as above (Future/Active/Indicitive)

    Therefore what the text is not saying is that Jesus is currently building His church but that the truth declared by Peter is what He WILL build the Church upon.. yet future.. just as the gates of Hell will not prevail against it (future still).

    NOW.. the very context of the passages surrounding this show contextually -
    1. what the people thought about Jesus (past - Disciples had heard)
    2. What the disciples thought about Jesus (present - what the Disciples thought)
    3. What Jesus will build based upon the truth of Peter's statement (Future - His Church)

    If they were not His church, then the question comes.. when did they become His church.. It was after this point but before the saving of the 3000 souls that were added to the Church.
     
    #9 Allan, Nov 21, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  10. Revmitchell

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    Why could it not mean that it has started and will continue in the same fashion it began? I realize He could have said "I will continue" but it is not a necessity.
     
  11. prophet

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    What pews?
     
  12. Gregory Perry Sr.

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    ..to the OP...

    I would respectfully say....BOTH...and that simultaneously...culminating in the (hopefully soon) return of our Saviour to gather His beloved to meet Him in the air at the rapture....and so shall we all ever be with the Lord!!! I just can'y wait til the Millenium and beyond!! It is my studied opinion that the Word of God expounds on the local, visible assemblies as well as the Church universal and makes clear that we are to serve Him faithfully in a through the local visible assemblies after being saved. I believe that to be the balanced teaching of God's Word. I also believe He does use legitimate, faithful para-church ministries to support and further the work of the local New Testament assemblies. Rescue Missions like PGM in Chicago and ministries like Samaritans Purse are good examples of that.

    Bro.Greg:saint:
     
  13. percho

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    Does the word of God not state that Jesus the one rejected by crucifixion and then raised from the dead becomes the first stone laid in the church of the living God?
     
  14. DHK

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    1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

    Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
    1 Peter 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

    1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
    10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
    11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
    --Paul here describe how he, the other apostles, and all the members of the church at Corinth, build upon this one foundation which is Christ. He is put down first being the chief cornerstone. In construction the chief cornerstone is always laid first before any other stone. All the other stones are squared to it.
     
  15. percho

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    Another thing. And please, I would like the thoughts of each of you.

    And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.Matt 16:16,17,18

    God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by (In) Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Heb 1:1,2

    Is it God the Father building the church in, through, by Son Jesus the Christ (the Anointed, Anointed by whom) or is it Jesus the Christ the Son of God who is building the church?

    Would that even matter?
     
  16. percho

    percho
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    Therefore is your answer yes or no? Of course I think I understand the key to the answer being my using the necessity of resurrection for becoming the head of the corner.

    BTW DHK I think you and I are on to something here.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    why it be the starting of this group here upon the earth with the Apostles, but NOT officially in full operation and established until Pentacost, as they were still living in that transit/in between period before that Event happened?
     
  18. Yeshua1

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    yes, the scriptures would indicate BOTH a U church, and local churches!
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I agree!:smilewinkgrin:
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    there are no scriptures that say God knows us by being found in a local church that I am aware of, but that he sees and finds us by being in Christ, and THAT happens wher we get born again, sealed and baptized into him byt he Spirit!
     

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