Jesus Teaches Tolerance

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    As Baptists, I have often wondered how sectarian we really & truly are. For example there are people on a Arminian Camp and the Doctrines of Grace Camp who have staked out unyielding sectarian (WIKI attachment below) positions in many previous debates ... but what does Scripture have to say? Examine:

    Mark 9:38-41


    New International Version (NIV)
    Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us

    38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”

    39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


    https://www.google.com/search?q=sec...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
     
    #1 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
  2. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys
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    :thumbsup:
     
  3. righteousdude2

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    I do not exactly disagree with your statement and supportive Scripture, however, the Bible was meant to be likened to a two-edged sword; and does a sword not cut???

    The meaning of tolerance, as used in our society today, is not what I believe you are trying to refer to here any more than what Jesus meant in this text.

    Jesus was speaking more of an act of love or charity in this text above, than tolerating their teaching or actions. I say this because if it were meant in a way to tolerate their actions, than would he NOT be contradicting himself when he says the Word is like a two-edged sword.

    To tolerate others, especially those practicing sins opposed to the manner in which the Father created us, would actually be an act that dulls the edges of this sword?

    To tolerate the lifestyles of sin, or the sinners makes the sword useless in fighting sin, or upholding a standard of living the Bible demands and mandates that the believer manifest when proclaiming to be followers of Him.

    Would he not be contradicting himself when he told us that the Gospel message would not necessarily unite ALL of us, but rather to divide? How can Jesus, one minute tell us to tolerate tohers and the next minute that he and his word had come to divide and set us apart from the world. Did he not call us to be a pecular people? Did he not call us to be the salt or the earth, or the light on the hill? Did he not tell us to make a choice to who we would follow ans serve? How can those be words of tolerating?

    Did Jesus not tell his followers to take up the cross and leave their world behind. Once we join the Lord's army, we begin a life that is opposed to sinning, and it is not up to us to water down that Gospel in order to soothe or protect the feelings of those who hold to certain sins and think they can continue to practice sinning if they claim to be serving Jesus, too.

    The Gospel is confrontational. It was sent to us in order to rid the old man of his old flesh in order to make all things new. When we read that old things have passed away, that means all things. Is it not like "itching or tickling the ears" of those who want to hear what they want to hear [instead of the hard facts and truths of the Gospel] when we resort to preaching a tolerant, politically-correct gospel?

    Is it not being tolerant or politically correct to preach and teach a Gospel that is selective in what its message in order to not offend?

    I think you need to rethink your definition of what tolerance is when it comes to what we, as a church need to be doing when we go out into this world. We can love one another, but, that doesn't mean we can ignore what they do and say. Because to ignore and say we accept you as you are is like turning a blind eye to their sin, and that leaves them to think they are okay in your eyes, so that makes them okay in God's eye, too???

    I believe that is why gays want marriage to be an accepted word for their sin. Their hidden agenda is that if the world, our society and the government approve of their sinful unification, then they must in fact be OKAY with God, too?

    Didn't Jesus say to some who came before him at judgment and claimed to have preached the Godpel, cast out demons and heal the sick that in FACT he knew them not? Would not your idea of tolerance [as interpreted in your opening text and statment] be blanket approval to those caught up in sin, to continue to sin?

    I think you mean well, and I do understand how we may confuse one thing for another when it comes to tolerating others, but, the Gospel does draw a line in the sand, and we have to hold tha line if in fact we hope to lead people to Jesus and out of the sin their flesh is following.

    I'm just thinking out loud....and would appreciate your thoughts as to my thoughts. I am not trying to put you down EW&F, I am merely wondering if we have two different ideas of what Jesus is saying when it comes to practicing charity/tolerance versus steadfast love???

    Of course, if you believe we need to tolerate others, regardless of what they do,who am I to try to change your views? I guess I will have to tolerate your thoughts, and continue to remain steadfast in what I believe the word teaches us to do when it comes to sin.

    I don't believe you would be willing to tolerate false teachings; sin in your pastor; or a fellow brother in the pew who has committed adultery with another member in the choir? So, when does your interpretation of tolerance switch from accepting what another does, to correcting them?

    I guess that is what I am asking you? I am quite positive [from past comments you've made about my posts and threads] that you have no problem correcting a fellow Baptist when they stray from the doctrine; so, when do you practice what you say, above, towards those like me? Should you not be tolerant of my views, too??? :smilewinkgrin:
     
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Nice post Dude!!!
     
  5. Oldtimer

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    Righteousdude2, well said my brother and friend. :thumbsup:

    There is, indeed, a line in the sand. Satan is doing everything in the power that's been given to him, to erase it.
     
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Point out dude where I say we should tolerate sin.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Except it went down the rabbit trail vs addressing sectarism. So totally off course.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    IF we have the right Gospel, and have the right core essential doctrines in agreement, we are one in Christ..

    problem is that today we are accepting too many into the camp who deny fundemenatl truths, or else rephrase them so to make them appear to be saying same thing, but are really not!
     
  9. righteousdude2

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    Thanks "Yoda!" :)

    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  10. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    Um.....

    ....in your title, to start with it. You did not pose it as a question, but rather a statement of fact.

    Then your text reference appears to support being tolerant of those who do things in Jesus's name, who may not be known by Jesus or those who followed Jesus.

    My mama would always say, "Paul, if it quacks like a duck; walks like a duck; and looks like a duck; it is probably a DUCK!"

    If I misread your intent, I certainly apologize. However, it seemed to quack, walk and talk like "Tolerance" so it sure looked like "Tolerance" to me! :smilewinkgrin:

    I'll say it again, EW&F, if you meant something else and I misread your intent, I am sorry. It was never my intent to scold you or jump on you. I was merely presenting my views on the sin of tolerance and how it's stripped away any semblance of His truth within many churches today.

    You need to realize that I am a Hell, fire and brimstone type of preacher. :wavey:
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Then tolerance was poor word usage....I meant to stress sectarism.

    By now you should know from my posts that Im not a tolerant man when it comes to allot of things. But if I cant shoot ya (JK) & I have to live with you then I guess I could be civil. Guess is such a week word though. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  12. saturneptune

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    I agree 100% with your post. I do not see where the gay issue addressed in another post has a thing to do with it. Homosexual marriage is a sin and wrong in the eyes of God regardless if politicians and governments make it law or not. Also, the Bible is a two edge sword, that cuts away all the baloney and makes it crystal clear what is meant by taking up your cross and following Christ.

    However, Baptists do tend to put vices on a pedestal that are not sins. These can be, depending on the local church, dancing, gambling, drinking, play cards, TV, movies, etc. These do nothing to add to the Christ like life. I do not dance because I look like I am having a seizure, do not gamble because I have better things to do with my money, but that has nothing to do with Scripture. My point is, a lot of local churches spend more time on worrying about vices than they do telling the Good News.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Here is an excerpt from Wiki on Sectarianism.

    The ideological underpinnings of attitudes and behaviours labelled as sectarian are extraordinarily varied. Members of a religious or political group may believe that their own salvation, or the success of their particular objectives, requires aggressively seeking converts from other groups; adherents of a given faction may believe that for the achievement of their own political or religious project their internal opponents must be converted or purged.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism
     

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