Jesus the man from heaven 2

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 23, 2015.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?

    Phil 2:5-6

    5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    The answer is a resounding YES ! Most people believe, and I also believed once, and without warrent, that the Being of the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5, that He did not exist until after being born of the virgin mary, but this was because if spiritual ignorance, for He was the Only Begotten Son of God, in the form of God, before His Incarnation, and so says our text Phil 2:6

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    For it was while in this Preincarnate form, He had the Mind of Christ Jesus ! It was then in pre creation that Christ Jesus as Mediator was in the Form of God, prior to taking on a entirely different form, the form of a servant by the incarnation !
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Was He the Lord Christ Jesus before the Incarnation ?2

    Another scripture that proves the same, that reveals that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator Man Person, Glorified before the incarnation, it is 2 Cor 8:9

    9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

    He had been rich in His God Man Mediator Glory, equal with God, before the World began Jn 17:5

    5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Phil 2:5-6 Now I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ in His Preincarnate existence as God Man Mediator, looked the way He did to James Peter and John here on the Mount Matt 17:1-3

    And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,

    2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

    3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

    2 Pet 1:17-19

    17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

    19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

    I believe Moses had seen Him before and so did recognize Him on the Mount when with Him ! When did Moses see Him before ? Ex 24:10-18

    Notice Vs 10, they saw something under His Feet, So this was a Person existing as the God of Israel, this would have been the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Mediator between God and Men, in Union with the Godhead.

    Jonh Gill writes on Ex 24:10

     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    He is the beginning !

    Col 1:18

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    This scripture sets forth a profound Mystery and Truth, that Christ as the Head of His Body the Church, was in the beginning, in other words, He existed in this capacity as the Head of the Body, His Church, at the beginning of the World, and it is what is referred to here Rev 3:14

    14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    Prov 8:23

    23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

    And He was set up the Head of His Body the Church, which are called the Sons of men in Prov 8:31

    31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

    Thats His Church, members of His Body, that He takes delight in, and it is those He made in His Image and Likeness, who are the ones to be conformed to His Image through redemptive blessing Rom 8:29

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    The Ones Created in His Image Gen 1:26

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Matt 13:37

    37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed[offspring, descendants] is the Son of man; See Gen 1:26 !

    As the beginning the Head of the Church, He is also the originating cause Eph 3:9

    9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    In other words, Creation had an Redemptive Purpose hidden in Christ, it was a Mystery !

    It was the redemptive purpose for that world[The Church He is the Head of ] chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

    4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
     
  4. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Who is the First Man ever Born ?

    Job 15:7

    7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

    Jn 1:30

    This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he[a man] was before me.

    I already know that the consensus will say Adam the First 1 Cor 15:45

    45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

    47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

    But that pertains only to manifestation, also Adam was not born or beget or fathered, he was created, or made, and that after a pattern of another Man, the Man Christ Jesus, His Mediator 1 Tim 2:5

    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    This statement is false if Christ Jesus was not the Mediator of men in Adam at Creation, at Creation, men had One God and One Mediator, the Man Christ Jesus, the thing was, Christ Jesus the Mediator was not yet manifested as He would be later I jn 3:8

    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    He became Manifested through means of the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth !

    The Man Christ Jesus is the First Man Born and by that is meant :


    I.first in time or place

    A.in any succession of things or persons



    II.first in rank

    A.influence, honour


    B.chief


    C.principal



    III.first, at the first

    In all things, including being a Man He must have the Preminence Col 1:18

    18 And he is the head of the body, the church[As Mediator]: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    The word preeminence means :

    I.to be first, hold the first place

    That word first in Job 15:7 for first man is the hebrew word ri'shown :

    I.first, primary, former

    A.former (of time)

    i.ancestors


    ii.former things



    B.foremost (of location)


    C.first (in time)


    D.first, chief (in degree)

    Christ the Mediator Man [1Tim 2:5] was before Adam as He was before John 1:30, in fact Adam took the form and shape of a Man after being made in the Image and Likeness of his God Man Mediator, Christ Jesus !
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Who is the First Man ever Born ?2

    Job 15:7

    7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

    The second portion of this verse gives us more insight into who this First Man Born is, by the words of inquiry"or wast thou made before the hills?"

    The word made here is the hebrew word chuwl and means:


    ii.to be brought forth



    D.(Hophal) to be born

    Which is its meaning in Prov 8:24-25

    24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

    25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

    Did you notice again the phrase "before the hills" ? Where did we see it before ? Here Job 15:7

    7 Art thou the first man that was born? or wast thou made before the hills?

    The First Man was born, brought forth before the Hills were ! Prove 8:24-25 is speaking of the Wisdom of God, which is Christ 1 Cor 1:24

    24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

    And who is Christ ? Why He is the The Man Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5

    5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

    He delighted as Mans Mediator before they were Created Prov 8:31

    31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

    Some Translations of Prov 8:25

    25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: are:

    before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,NIV

    before the mountains were set in place— before the hills—I was born,NET

    And before the mountains would be established, and before the hills, I was formed in the womb.Aramaic Bible in Plain English See Ps 110:3

    The Septuagint reads:

    25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me.

    which terms relate to being born, Hence the First Man to be born is the Lord Jesus Christ as The Mediator between God and Men 1 Tim 2:5, The Man Wisdom, and we are His Children if we receive this Mystery Lk 7:35

    But wisdom [Christ] is justified by all her children.
     
  6. TrevorL

    TrevorL
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    Greetings savedbymercy,
    I agree that Philippians 2 is speaking concerning the mind of Christ Jesus, but as such it is not speaking of the incarnation. It is speaking of the mind of Christ as he entered his ministry and throughout his ministry. He humbled himself to become a servant and this alludes to Isaiah 42:1-7 and many other passages. He was the Son of God and could have been the greatest earthly ruler of all time, but he submitted to the crucifixion as His Father had requested. As a result he has been exalted above all.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    I don't agree, it is speaking of the Mind He had before His Incarnation while being in the form of God, afterwards He took on the form of a servant!
     
  8. TrevorL

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    Greetings again savedbymercy,
    Are you suggesting that a babe in the arms of Mary is "the form of a servant". Also a larger subject, but I do accept the "Incarnation" as popularly taught is Scriptural. Luke 1:35 teaches that God the Father was the father of Jesus, and Mary his mother, and as a result Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Did you read my comments and understand them ? Please read them and review them with me !
     
  10. TrevorL

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    Greetings again savedbymercy,
    In my last Post I made an error, and did not correct this. I meant to say:
    “I do not accept the "Incarnation" as popularly taught is Scriptural. Luke 1:35 teaches that God the Father was the father of Jesus, and Mary his mother, and as a result Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son.”

    I am willing to briefly review your comments. I did not get past your first Post as I disagreed with this. Looking at your first Post again, using Philippians 2:5-6 you deduct:
    My answer was that I do not believe in the Incarnation and cannot accept your application of Philippians 2:5-6 to the Incarnation.

    I am not sure that you would want to continue with me on this thread as I have extensively discussed my belief on another thread titled “Trinity” where I explained my belief that there is One God, the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I do not want to repeat this detail. Even though you have raised a slightly different perspective, it is still based upon the concept of the Trinity, and the idea that Jesus was God the Son before the Incarnation.

    Perhaps to briefly state my position using the Scripture to define the one God as God the Father, and these passages distinguish Jesus Christ as separate from God the Father.
    Matthew 6:9 (KJV): After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV): But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    2 Corinthians 1:2 (KJV): Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Galatians 1:1 (KJV): Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.
    Galatians 1:3 (KJV): Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
    Ephesians 1:2 (KJV): Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Philippians 1:2 (KJV): Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Colossians 1:2 (KJV): To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Philemon 3 (KJV): Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Thessalonians 1:1 (KJV): 1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    2 Thessalonians 1:2 (KJV): Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Timothy 1:2 (KJV): Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Titus 1:4 (KJV): To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
    1 Peter 1:3 (KJV): Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
    2 John 3 (KJV): Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.


    The Bible also states in simple and clear terms that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the term “God the Son” is not found or taught in the Scriptures. I could add a significant list on this as per “God the Father”, but the following could be sufficient as representative of the many:
    Luke 1:35 (KJV): And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
    John 10:35-36 (KJV): 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
    John 17:1-3 (KJV): 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
    Romans 1:1-4 (KJV): 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:


    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    The Shepherd Man !

    Zech 13:7

    7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

    This Prophecy ensured that the coming redeemer of Gods People, His Sheep, would be a Man, its the Man Christ Jesus [which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation").]

    Christ Jesus is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 , and He would be also God and Man, in fact earlier the same Prophet identifies that Man as Jehovah Himself Zech 12:10

    10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

    The piercing here is equivalent to the sword in Zech 13:7 they both belong to the Justice of God rendered in His Redemptive and substitutionary Death for the Sheep, So the Prophet knew that the Shepherd Man the fellow was God, and again that He was known to be a Divine Man by the Prophet is seen here Zech 6:12

    12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:

    This Man shall build the Temple of the Lord ! See Matt 16:18 ! The Man Christ Jesus is responsible to build the Temple of the Lord, not a material , physical temple, but a Spiritual One made of Lively stones that He through His Spirit quickens to Life !

    The same ones it is written of them this Eph 2:5

    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

    Its said soon after this Eph 2:19-22

    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    This Temple was Built by the Shepherd Man who is God Zech 6:12;13:7;12:10 !111
     

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