Jesus the Word or the Bible the Word?

The Bible is God's word from the Word---from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22: 21---the words are Jesus' words written down!

The Bible is "Jesus Talking"

 

Which is more important, Jesus of the Bible? (BTW amen blackbird) The Bible tells us to focus on the Father. Jesus tells us to focus on the Father. I think it is safe to say that the true emphasis is to ummm focus on the Father??? You know, build our relationship first by trusting in the salvation through the blood of Jesus and then living right according to the moral law of the Bible!!!

 

Matt---let the liberals answer to their own problem since they're the only ones who seem to have a problem with the inspired, infallable, inerrant word of God from the Word of God.

What's their problem anyway?? If its not written in red ink in the content of the four gospels--it didn't come from the mind of Jesus?? Is that the problem??

 

Jesus said the key ... He "came to seek and to save that which was lost." God the Father is judgmental of sin. He will deal with sin in the strongest of ways. That does not make Him a monster ... unless we are going to recreate God in our own image and thoughts. The problem of the liberal is that he/she wants to redefine the eternal God and Creator in their own ways. "If God is this way - I can't accept Him."

Real Christians do not have a higher understanding of God. We simply trust the Scriptures to be valid and the revealed God to be Who He is. Our finite minds will not be able to deal with Who God is ... so we have to trust that it will make sense when we can see the infinite and comprehend Him.

It simply comes down to - will you accept and worship the one who made you or will you decide who is God to you? The created never can decide anything about the creator. Some of what your questions are showing is the absence of creation thinking and the presence of evolutionary thought.

We live in a day of opinions ... even in the church. God does not care what a person's opinion of Him is. And in the church, God does not want our opinions making the decisions. The only opinion which ultimately matters is God's opinion. God will define Himself.

 

Thanks Brother Crowe!

From

Brother Crowe

 

That's a very good question, Matt. You have nailed the essential point. The problem is that most people have a square concept of God or a circle concept of God and then try to squeeze everything into it until it fits. Instead of trying to force God into our preconceived notions, wouldn't it be better to just learn what God is like and let the chips fall where they may. Each new thing we learn about God shouldn't modify our concept of God, it should add to it. It's like a painting with each new stoke enhancing the picture. It isn't a receipe with each new ingredient diluting and changing the previous ingredients.

 

Matt: I understand what you are saying. I think that Artimaeus is saying it right ... Liberals are forced into a Scripture non-response by their pre-conceived notions. They have determined ahead of time what type of character God must have. Then, they reject anything that disappoints their view. They are not dealing with God and Scripture from a credible academic perspective. No honest scholarship starts with a finished product ... honest scholarship demands a discovery (and with things about God, faith acceptance of those discoveries).

Consider 1 John 2:19

Bob

 

And a position that includes inerrancy doesn't start with a finished product? You have to be kidding! An academic approach to theology (if there really is such a thing) must start with a text--in this case the bible. One would not come to see the Bible as inerrant and above question if one did not come to the bible with that preconception. It doesn't even claim that for itself.

A middle road between these two positions would place the revelation in Jesus as the central element in theology and the central thing revealed in the bible and trust the texts of scripture to convey a proper understanding of God while leaving the more "objective" aspects of history and science up for grabs. I think that is the closest we can get to "academic theology."

Grace and Peace, Danny

 

Matt: Thank you for your concern for the Liberal. So many just write them off.

In recent years I have had the opportunity to work with some "scholars" at Princeton University. Princeton is prone to be very liberal ... to the point that they will go to any philosophy or religion to get whatever they say they need for their thoughts and theories. Often I am confronted with those who claim many letters after their name; yet lack basic common sense or faith.

The Christian faith (and God) is not for philosophical conjecture and scientific analysis. While the Bible is scientific, it is not following the scientific methods established by scholars. God has demanded that we approach Him through His methods, not ours. In other words, much of the Liberal’s problem is in methods and approaches. There is a strong Gnostic similarity in that a sense of higher attainment is part of their thinking.

Is it reasonable to “maintain the inconsistency of the Christ with the God of the OT and again state they are 'forced' back on either gnosticism/Marcionism or a non-literal interpretation of the OT”? Again it is illustrated that those of the Liberal bent are ignoring the realities of life around them. When I was a child, my Father was different (in my eyes) than during my teens, young adult or older years. In each period of life, he seemed to respond to me differently and I saw a different aspects of who he was. God, being infinite, has far more to understand than our earthly Fathers. The God of the OT is showing us that He has expectations concerning sin. He is showing us the basis by which He would judge each of our nations and us. That basis has not changed. In The Revelation we find God judging the nations and punishment is real. The issue is not the “inconsistency of the Christ with the God of the OT”, it is the unwillingness to accept that God will judge and deal with sin. Much of the Liberal argument is designed to allow us to do what we want in the garden. Until a liberal is willing to accept that God will hold all men accountable and separate sin from Himself, that person cannot truly accept the work of Christ on the Cross.

But here is my difficulty, how to deal with the liberal with respect and not have them interpret that respect as agreement with their philosophies? How do we get them to set aside the heady philosophy for a simple trust? I can’t help but think that the key is to get them to reflect on the true nature of God. After all, He can do more with their heart than we will ever do with our discussions.

 

Danny: I think what I'm saying is that God is still active in honest discovery. After all, inerrancy is nothing without Divine Authorship. The author is more imprtant than the text.

 

Good response! The issue of creation is bigger than most consider it to be. Personal Accountability is built into that concept. If I am an evolved ameba, then I'm not responsible ... and I can make my own rules. My thoughts, concepts, and feelings matter more if I'm an evolved being. But, if I'm created, it is God's thoughts, concepts, methods and demands that matter - not mine.

God bless your discussions with your Liberal friends. I'm praying for your efforts.

Yours In Christ's Service,
Bob

 

Only if one presupposes a dichotomy between evolution and the creative power of God.

Matt, interrestingly enough your answer sounds much like the very modern (and very liberal by the standards of this board) Karl Rahner. Your statement could be a summary of his entire theological hermeneutic. His only spin would be that we are always in the state of being turned towards God--even in our weaknesses. (just thought this observation might be interesting)

Grace and Peace, Danny

 

-Lea butts in- ( don't you just LOVE these? )

Example:

I make a videotape for my children after I have left this world so they can carry a piece of me always, and remember who I was to a T (looks, attitude, ect.)

God makes a book full of everything he wants us to know, learn, and remember about him. While i FIRMLY believe that God is talking today and we are just not listening, I believe that THIS book IS him as much as that videotape would be me.

**note: I'm not saying that I am God i'm just giving a comparasion for our discussion here **

-Lea butts out-