Jesus Washing Osama's Feet

Saturneneptune...

Yep. Common sense will make it clear. Those who caught the women in the act of adultery, they caught her in the act. Common sense makes it clear what to do, doesnt it?

Stone her to death.

How did Jesus handle it?

 

He handles it by showing her mercy. How dare you compare that to a monster who kills thousands without a second thought and shows not one ounce of spirtual thought? How does an act of adultry compare to being so wound up with Satan and this world that it is obvious there is no hope for change? Are you so blinded you cannot see the difference between sin and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

It is my sincere wish that I could debate you anytime, anywhere, on theology.

 

SaturnNeptune...

Me...

You...

 

Did Jesus die for Osama? What about Stalin? Hitler? Jeffrey Dahmer? Pol Pot? Nicolae Ceauşescu? Saddam Hussein? Charles Manson? Idi Amin? Jim Jones? Yasser Arafat? The highjackers of 9/11? Baptist Believer? SaturnNepture?

He died for all of us.

Those who have been redeemed (Dahmer, Baptist Believer and SaturnNepture) cannot assume that the miracle of redemption cannot happen for someone else while they are still walking this earth.

We have no right to say that our previous rebellion against God was any LESS effective at separating us from God, or any MORE effective from keeping us from God's grace than someone else's.

How do you know that there is no hope for change?

Wasn't Saul having Christians killed before Jesus interrupted his mission of persecution?

You somehow know the difference between someone who has willingly committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and someone who is just evil because of their depraved spiritual condition and a false religion/ideology which drives their decisions?

God is sovereign and can work with anyone He chooses. I can certainly judge the fruit of someone else's life, but I cannot once-and-for-all say they are beyond redemption.

 

I stand by every word I said. I will defend the Lord being compared or being a servant against such trash until my last breath.

 

Its called common sense. Pearls to swine does not make it. The Bible is a total picture, not verses you deem appropriate.

 

Some people cannot get past the shock of this picture, and the wonderful picture it shows of how a holy God reached down to sinful man.

At first, the oddity of the picture does cause a second take. But then, when viewed properly, it shows the example Jesus Christ left for us, serving others.

I can see though that a Calvinist might have trouble with it, but I'm not a Calvinist.

 

He handled it by following the law. “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her....And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last...”. If two or more of them had remained to bear witness (“where are they? did no man condemn thee?”) He would have been bound by the law to allow the stoning. “...go thy way; from henceforth sin no more...” That's pure law, not mercy.

You're never going to tire of trying to build your case on that one point are you? I believe if we were able to ask Him why He washed Judas's feet it would be something along the lines of, 'that the scripture may be fulfilled'. Any which way you slice it, Judas was a chosen apostle, "Did I not choose you the twelve and one of you is a devil?" “Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, Who did eat of my bread, Hath lifted up his heel against me.” Judas was a part of that inner circle.

He gave Himself a ransom for MANY. And we know Him no more after the flesh. He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and it is blasphemy to place Him at the feet of one such as Osama bin Laden and I couldn't care less if you arrogantly group me with those “mostly misinformed, over-contextualized Christians” as you call us. You are dead wrong.

 

Maybe I will be the only reformed brother here to say this, but the artist broke the Law of God when he made an image of God.

 

In addition to what I said above, I actually appreciate on another level the idea. The washing of the feet, yes, is biblically incorrect.

However, the loving and serving of one's enemies is not. My artistic critique is that this artist really doesn't get it. This could have been very well done. There is not near enough emotion displayed on the faces and body language of those depicted.

Where is the amazement, bewilderment, anger, shame, indifference, brokeness?

It could have been done much, much better.

 

10 In love of the brethren be tenderly affectioned one to another; in honor preferring one another;
11 in diligence not slothful; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
12 rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing stedfastly in prayer;
13 communicating to the necessities of the saints; given to hospitality.
14 Bless them that persecute you; bless, and curse not.
15 Rejoice with them that rejoice; weep with them that weep.
16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Set not your mind on high things, but condescend to things that are lowly. Be not wise in your own conceits.
17 Render to no man evil for evil. Take thought for things honorable in the sight of all men.
18 If it be possible, as much as in you lieth, be at peace with all men.
19 Avenge not yourselves, beloved, but give place unto the wrath of God: for it is written, Vengeance belongeth unto me; I will recompense, saith the Lord.
20 But if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him to drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Ro 12

Jaigner, RB, in the context of the above passage there is 'the brethren', 'the saints', 'thine enemy'. Do you believe that Paul is referring to unregenerate, unbelieving , or unfamiliar enemies? Or is it more likely that our enemies here are actually brothers that we know in the Lord?

How far do you take this loving and serving your enemies? The intruder in your home that is bent on causing you and your family harm, are you going to preach the gospel to him, or pray for them?

And there's something different about this enemy. We're told not to even greet them:

10 If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into your house, and give him no greeting:
11 for he that giveth him greeting partaketh in his evil works. 2 Jn

What's the difference between these two sets of enemies?


[edit] Actually these questions are posed to anyone, not just Jaigner or RB. If you have answers I'd love to hear them.

 

jaigner...

Thats exactly how I feel about it. Violence, fighting, shooting etc are are, of course, ALWAYS to be the absolute LAST option...when all of the civil, peaceful, *right thinking* options have failed, and we have no choice but to choose the horrendous option of violence and/or shooting.

 

I would not wait to see if he meant harm I would assume he did and take him out the best way I could.

 

Someone once asked me what I would do if Osama came in to my church service---heard the gospel presented---responded in form of being saved and making a public profession of faith and had a desire to be baptised---what would I do??

I told them that I would present Osama to the church as candidate for baptism upon his verbal profession of faith---and I would then proceed to baptize him and then say to him

"Brother Osama----you see those FBI agents seated in the back of the worship center??---its time you turn yourself over to them without incident!!"--------to which I would personally escort him to the waiting agents and see to it that hand and ankle cuffs were placed in proper working order!!!

 

The message of the Gospel is not "I'm OK, you're OK." It seems almost all on this thread do not understand the concept of righteous anger. It seems the Scriptures give plenty of examples of this by the Lord, like the Pharisees and the moneychangers in the temple. Now, the prostitute was mentioned above, and the Lord treated her totally different than the Pharisees. If the Lord treats the two different, why can you not see the difference? There seems to be quite a misunderstanding of basic concepts.

I know, for all you kumbaya people, maybe your next invitation song could be "All we are saying is give peace a chance" with John Lennon.