JesusChrist in Heaven

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Joman, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. Joman

    Joman
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    Is Jesus Christ still Man and God, or since His resurrection only God?

    Is there in heaven a Man that is God and when church is taken to heaven will see only that man (Jesus) as God?
     
  2. MTA

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  3. Dr. Bob

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    God the Son became, at a point in time, the God-Man. He will always be God the Son. He will always be the God-Man, albeit in His perfect heavenly essence the next time we see Him.
     
  4. Joman

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    But God-SON existed only after he was born (from mary)

    Before that existed the Word

    correct?
     
  5. Marcia

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    Jesus as Son is more than just having been born from Mary. His role as Son is part of being in the Trinity.

    He is the Word and also 2nd Person of the Trinity as the Son of God eternally (that means no beginning and no end). We look at Jesus from the point of view of time since we are in time. But God is not in time so Jesus can be the Son eternally.
     
  6. Joman

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    Marcia, can you provide some bible reference about that the 2nd person of the trinity is the son an not the Word?

    According to what i read the ETERNAL second person is the Word..and was named SON only after he became human.


    Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee? And again, I WILL BE to him a Father, and he SHALL BE to me a Son?

    Seems that the SON condition was not before Mary.
     
  7. Rooster

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    From my understanding beliveing that God (Father, Son, Holy Ghost)is a man is a mormon belief, and the Bible teaches us that God is a Spirit (John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth. )

    Bringham Young of the Morman Church said: :If our Father, and God should be disposed to walk through these aisles, we should not know Him from one of the congregation. You would see a man and that is all you would know about him." (Journal of Discourses Vol. 11, pg.40)

    The journal of discourses also teaches that Jesus had many wives... The two sisters of Lazarus, and Mary Magdalene(Journal od discourses Vol 1, pg.345, and vol 2 pg. 210)

    and they also teach that man becomes a God with a planet of thier own (Articels of faith, by James Talmage, pg. 430)

    Personaly I can't see how people buy into this hogwash.

    You should see what they believe about black people.
     
  8. Johnv

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    Good guestions, but not to worry. God is in Heaven, present in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those who accept the gift of salvation given through the Son will one day be in God's presence.

    Now, since none of us have been to heaven and come back to tell us about it, we can only speculate as to what all of that means.
     
  9. Joman

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    JohnV, if he was rised with a body and his disciples saw him with a body in the clouds that's why im asking...

    But oh well, seems i have to wait til' i go there [​IMG]

    Rooster God is not a man...but God used a HUMAN body and resurrected it incorruptible and was taken to heaven with that Body.
     
  10. pastorjeff

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    Good point on the Mormons, but He did come as 100% man. The idea that He didn't or couldn't was a gnostic belief, the belief that the Christ came only as a Spirit. It's false doctrine. He was 100% man, and 100% God.
     
  11. Marcia

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    Joman, I have to go out now but will check this out and get back to post later tonight or tomorrow.
     
  12. Rooster

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    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].

    Jesus was Born flesh and blood, that is correct, but he was not born with the same human sin nature as man. That is why he was the "Perfect" sacrafice for our sins.
     
  13. Rooster

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    John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth

    14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?

    3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him].

    In the book of John, I think it gives us plenty of examples of God (Jesus) being a spirit, in flesh and blood. When we are Born again we become spirit too:


    Genesis 1:26a (KJV) And God said let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

    why does God say us, and our? Because God is 3 in one: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, some people know it better as the Trinity God is 3 personalities, but one God.

    So God made man a 3 part being too, body, soul, and spirit. In Gods image man was made 3 parts that are one as well. The Body is like the temple that contains soul, and spirit, the soul is the part that will exist forever, and the spirit is the part that we have communication, and a relationship to God through, it is the part that discerns the Bible, and allows God to hear our prayers (Romans 8:26), the Bible tells us that "the Holy Spirit Makita intercession for us"

    Genesis 2:17 (KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surly die.
    When man ate of the fruit of the tree of life (the forbidden fruit) mans spirit died. Man lost his relationship with God, man did not physically die, nor did his soul, it was his spirit that died.

    Until the ten commandments man lived in sin, and because of mans sinful nature, man could not live up to the ten commandments, so sacrifices were made to God, and mans sins were forgiven through the payment of blood. Thruout the old testament the Messiah was prophesized, and Jesus Christ fulfilled everyone of the prophesies: from the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10), Heir to the throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7), Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), At the appointed time (Daniel 9:25), Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), Declared to be the Son of God (Psalm 35:11), Would be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:15), Rejected by his own (Isaiah 53:3), Entered Jerusalem as a King riding on an ass (Zechariah 9:9), sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12), Accused by false witnesses(Psalm 35:11), silent to accusations(Isaiah 53:7), Spat upon, and smitten(Isaiah 50:6), hated without a cause(Psalm 35:19), the sacrificial Lamb (Isaiah 53:5), crucified with criminals(Isaiah 53:12), the list goes on...

    Jesus tells us (John 3:3)...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

    Even Nicodemus asked "can he enter a second time into his mothers womb?"

    John 3:5 Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (the physical birth, referring of the water in the womb of our mothers) and of the Spirit (the spiritual birth, that reunites Body, soul, and spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
     
  14. Marcia

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    Being the Son of God is a role in the Trinity; it's not just the incarnation. It's Jesus' eternal role and shows his relationship to God the Father.

    I think this verse shows that God sent Jesus, already a Son, to be born:
     
  15. Marcia

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    This is from Sovereign Grace Ministries
    Eternal sonship makes the most biblical sense. Jesus is the Son eternally as part of the Trinity and as his role in the Trinity, not just at the point of incarnation.
     
  16. Marcia

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    I had to divide up my post because it wouldn't let me post the whole thing. I hate that. :mad: I actually had to change the order of what I wrote and quoted. The last part is in the middle. This part was originally in the middle section.

    Apparently the subject of eternal sonship is a topic of hot debate. The late Walter Martin and John MacArthur deny it, while many others, including early church fathers, affirm it.

    Here are some scriptural points supporting eternal sonship
     
  17. rsr

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    MacArthur has changed his mind:

    "I have made many such revisions over the years, often taking measures to delete erroneous or confusing statements from my own tapes, and sometimes even preaching again through portions of Scripture with a better understanding of the text. Whenever I have changed my opinion on any significant doctrinal issue, I have sought to make my change of opinion, and the reasons for it, as clear as possible.

    To that end, I want to state publicly that I have abandoned the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." Careful study and reflection have brought me to understand that Scripture does indeed present the relationship between God the Father and Christ the Son as an eternal Father-Son relationship. I no longer regard Christ's sonship as a role He assumed in His incarnation."


    RE-EXAMINING THE ETERNAL SONSHIP OF CHRIST
     
  18. Marcia

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    I'm glad to hear MacArthur is back to believing in the eternal Sonship of Jesus! Thanks for letting us know, rsr.
     
  19. Joman

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    Marcia, thanks for your post! very useful.
     

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