Jewish gospel/Gentile gospel?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by bmerr, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. bmerr

    bmerr
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    To All,

    bmerr here. On another thread, and in other places, I've heard the idea advanced that while Peter and the eleven preached baptism for the remission of sins to the Jews, Paul went to the Gentiles with a gospel of salvation by grace through faith.

    I personally don't see any difference between what Paul preached and what Peter preached, but it might be beneficial to discuss the notion and either uphold it, or lay it to rest.

    Awaiting your thoughts.

    In Christ,

    bmerr
     
  2. BobRyan

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    Gal 1:6-11 Paul argues that there IS only ONE Gospel. In the Gospels Christ and John preached "The Gospel of the Kingdom"

    In Gal 3 we are told that the "Gospel" Was preached beforehand to Abraham.

    In Heb 4:1 we are told that the "Gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also"

    There is and WAS and HAS EVER BEEN only ONE way of salvation for mankind - ONE message of good news! It has always been through the Messiah and it has ALWAYS been by grace through faith -- from Genesis to Revelation. From the day of the fall of Adam to this very day.

    ONE Gospel.

    ONE Good news.

    ONE way of Salvation.

    ONE savior.

    Not two.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. hillclimber

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    While I agree Bob that salvation has always been a matter of faith, it has been faith in the revelation as given to man in each different age.

    None of the old testament saints could believe in the finished work of Christ, for example. Some were to keep the law, for example.
     
  4. BobRyan

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    "Law keeping" (obedience vs rebellion) was never given as "a savior" according to Gal 3 and Romans 3. It was never a "means of salvation" or "the ONE Gospel".

    By the same token - rebellion against God is STILL NOT a means of salvation today. (Though some imagine that it is)

    The ONE Gospel ALWAYS invovled the New Birth and the Law "written on tablets of the human heart".

    In the ONE and ONLY Gospel.

    The fact that the work of Christ FOR US was a PROMISE in the future - vs reality in past HISTORY has nothing to do with God's certainty of KNOWING it -- only our level of trust required to "accept it".

    By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. av1611jim

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    By their "Accepting" something that had not YET happened in human history - they were expressing even MORE faith! Hence it is only OT saints that appear in the NT faith chapter - Heb 11 as examples FOR US.

    In Christ,

    Bob
    __________________________________________________

    This is ridiculous since the NT had not even been completed yet. In addition, there is no such thing as one having "more faith" than another. God has given to all men the necessary faith for salvation. This is the error of the Word/Faith movement. "If only you had 'more faith' you could be healed/out of debt/ blah, blah, blah."

    To answer the op; there is only ONE Gospel. That of the Kingdom of God and that man may be part of it because of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

    The notion that "Law" was part of the OT 'gospel' is false. Abraham BELIEVED God and it was counted to him for righteousness. This happened at least 25 YEARS before he was told to sacrifice Isaac.

    The common problem and misunderstanding among christendom today is that many think there is ONE salvation. There are TWO. One is for eternity and is based on faith alone. The other is for the coming Milleniel Kingdom of Christ and is a REWARD for faithful service. God has revealed many things in DUALITY for us to understand and believe. The Advents of Christ are just ONE example of such DUALITY. There is ONE gospel which is revealed in a DUALITY of truths.

    Should one prayerfully examine Scripture with this truth in mind, one will see the alledged disparity between Peter and Paul is thereby solved.

    In HIS service;
    Jim
     
  6. hillclimber

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    Moses was not saved by his faith in Christ. Neither was Noah, nor Issaic, Jacob, etc. They were all saved because they BELIEVED the revelation of God for them at the time.
     
  7. Frank

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    In Acts 20, Paul is in Ephesus where he preached the gospel of the grace of God.vs. 24. According to vs. 21, he preached this gospel to both Jews and Greeks. It is clear there is one gospel for all men under the new testament of Christ. Roms. 1:16.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    __________________________________________________

    The book of Hebrews is written several decades AFTER the cross and there are MANY examples of Apostles, NT Christians etc to draw upon. The point is that for the NT Saints the OT saints CONTINUED to be models for saving faith - real faith and the ONE GOSPEL in living color.

    OF course for those who believe in "more than one Gospel" - this could be a problem.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

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    "Under the New Testament of Christ"???

    IS this your way of denying the Words of Christ in John 8 claiming that Abraham actually SAW Christ??!

    Is this how we deny Gal 3 "The Gospel was preached BEFOREHAND to Abraham".

    Is this how we deny the point in the Book of Hebrews where Paul says "WE have had the Gospel preached to US JUST AS THEY also" Heb
    4:1?

    Do you see anywhere - where the NT text is called by the NT saints "The New Testament of Christ"??

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. BobRyan

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    Well "THAT" is "another Gospel" for sure.


    In the meant time the proto-evangelian IS found in Gen 3 and the term "Christ" IS in fact merely the Greek term for the OT doctrine on the "MESSIAH".

    Hard as it seems to believe - the ONE sin problem started in Eden Pre-flood and the ONE Gospel solution - began there as well.

    God so loved "the WORLD" that HE gave! (yes - really!)


    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. BobRyan

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    This is one of the most complete "TWO GOSPEL" models I think I have ever seen explicitly stated.

    Of course in Gal 1:6-11 Paul denies that such a thing exists - but that would be scripture.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    ONE Gospel.

    ONE Good news.

    ONE way of Salvation.

    ONE savior.

    Not two.
     
  13. Frank

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    Bob:
    Quote/
    "Under the New Testament of Christ"???

    IS this your way of denying the Words of Christ in John 8 claiming that Abraham actually SAW Christ??!

    Is this how we deny Gal 3 "The Gospel was preached BEFOREHAND to Abraham".

    Is this how we deny the point in the Book of Hebrews where Paul says "WE have had the Gospel preached to US JUST AS THEY also" Heb
    4:1?

    Do you see anywhere - where the NT text is called by the NT saints "The New Testament of Christ"??

    In Christ,

    Bob;

    No, Bob it is not. Abraham looked for a city whose builder and maker was God. However, Abraham did not have the complete picture.


    No. Abraham lived during the age of the patriarchs. His faith was based upon his direct knowledge of God.

    No. You are simply comparing different dispensations of time. My post is a clear reference to Peter and Paul as it pertains to the new testament of Christ. Mat. 26:28, Hebs. 9;15-17, I Cor. 9:21.

    No. It is implied by Hebrews 9:15-17, Mat. 26:28.
     
  14. prophecynut

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    The common problem and misunderstanding among Christendom today is the incorrect understanding of the kingdom offered to Israel during the gospels. Popular belief has a physical kingdom offered to Israel and a spiritual kingdom given to the Church.

    As we see from Luke 11:35; 17:21 the "kingdom of God is within you." Because Israel rejected the kingdom Jesus took it away from them and gave it "to a people who will produce it's fruit" (Mt. 21:43; Gal. 5:22). The Church did not inherit a physical kingdom from Israel, it was a spiritual kingdom.

    The Jews were as confused as Christians are today, Jews thought Jesus intended to restore the physical kingdom a few days before Pentecost (Acts 1:6). Before his crucifixion the Jews had hoped he "was the one who was going to redeem Israel" (Lk. 24:21). They were looking for the deliverance of Israel from foreign domination and for the establishment of an earthly kingdom.

    There is one gospel rejected by Israel and given to the Gentiles. There are two kingdoms, one spiritual rejected by Israel and inherited by the Gentiles and a physical kingdom that Israel will inherit after the Second Coming.
     
  15. hillclimber

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    prophecynut:
    While I recognize you're correct in the Jews rejection of the Messiah, I disagree that the Church (The Body of Christ made up of every believer today) inherited a spiritual Kingdom. We got, as a result of Israel's rejection a whole new deal, completely apart from Law or a Kingdom, hid in the Father and payed for in full by Christ's finished work on the cross. God raised up a whole new apostle, never aligned with the original twelve, with the job of telling Jew and Gentile that they were one in Christ. In the institution of this mysterious age of grace, we were freed of the bondage of the law. Remember the Judiasers that sought to dilute Pauls message with elements of the law? Paul actually had to have an instructional talk with Peter, to his face it says. God had to show Peter that the previous taboos on food were now over.(white sheet)

    No we inherit no part of the displaced Kingdom, and thankfully so. We are new creatures in Christ, saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
     
  16. prophecynut

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    hillclimber says:
    Gal. 2:7
    "On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews."

    After Pentecost Paul preached the same gospel or kingdom to the Gentiles as Peter preached to the Jews before it.

    Here is the kingdom you are not aware of:

    1 Col. 1:13
    "For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves."

    1 Thess. 2:12
    "encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into his kingdom and glory."

    We inherited this kingdom:

    Acts 20:32
    Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

    Eph. 1:13-14
    "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel (or kingdom) of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption.."

    Also: Eph. 1:18; 5:5; Heb. 9:15; 1 Pet. 1:4.

    You said: "In the institution of this mysterious age of grace." The age of grace or age of the Church is no longer a mystery, it was revealed to Paul, we now participate in the kingdom or gospel as it applies to the Church.
     
  17. hillclimber

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    OK we are again confusing the long promised Kingdom, with the overall kingdom of God. This kingdom as you call it, today, has no comparison with the promised Messiah ruled Kingdom. It's better title would be "Age of grace" Compare methods of comportment, ways of salvation, use of sign gifts, evangelizing methods, etc. Completely different ways of God dealing with man.

    When Jesus was leaving in the ascension He said, "These signs will follow" (Mark 16 I think) and they thus far have not. We have no one living after consuming poison, and people die daily in spite of our enlightened Christain community and our famous medical care system.
     
  18. hillclimber

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    Even at the ascension Jesus was still offering signs to Israel, the thick headed chosen people. We have no signs today, because we are not Israel, spiritual or otherwise.
     
  19. hillclimber

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    Christ's entire ministry, while on earth was to Israel. As was Peter's, John's, Matthew's, Mark's, and all the other apostles. Paul was raised a set apart apostle, preaching an entirely new message to the people in the new program called the "Body of Christ."
     
  20. prophecynut

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    Hey hillclimber, are you spamming the board or is this a futile attempt to vindicate yourself?
     

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