Jews fight Israel

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by wopik, May 13, 2004.

  1. wopik

    wopik
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    The first time the word "Jews" is mentioned in the Bible, the Jews are at war with ISRAEL (2 Kings 16:5-6).

    So "now" we know that all Jews are Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews !!!

    The 10 tribed Nation of Israel, Went to war with "Judah" (the Jews, along with benjamin).
     
  2. DeafPosttrib

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    That's correct. "Jews" not appear TILL in the 2 Kings of the Old Testament.

    I am sure the reason you started this topic, because of dispensationalism believes God have two programs for Israel and Church. FOr about more than 2,000 years since creation to 2 Kings, word, "Jews" was not appear there.

    But "Hebrews" was already there during the population of Hebrews grew in Egypt between post-Joseph's era and before Moses'era. Notice in Genesis 14:13, Abraham was being labeled 'Hebrew' .

    I want to tell you something about Abraham. Was Abraham, a Hebrew at his birth? In the first of 1,500 years since creation to the flood, none of the generations from Adam to Noah, were being labeled, 'Hebrew'. I consider, they are human being same as us.

    At the first place, Abraham was born without being called himself 'Hebrew' till his age 70, he was called by God.

    Does God saying and called Abraham, 'Hebrew'? No, I don't think so. I believe Abraham was called, 'Hebrew' because of Egytians noticed Abraham is much different from what Egyptians doing. For example, Egyptians worshipped idols, Abraham does NOT have an idol with him. They notice Abraham is something much different from what the heathens are doing. I believe, the reason Egyptians called Abraham, "Hebrews".

    During Early Church in the book of Acts, when the believers were in Antioch, they were called, "Christians". I believe the reason was, the people noticed them, they were much different than what the unbelievers are doing. In fact, during Early Church history during in the book of Acts in year around late 30's to 40's A.D., lot of people were worshipping their own idols. But, the early Christians do NOT worship the idol. I think the reason, why they notice believers are so much different from what the unbelievers are doing.

    Abraham is much same as us, because 'church' means "called out". When Abraham was in Ur, there were lot of idols there. God called Abraham out of Ur, and followed God. Same as God called us out of the world and to follow Him. That what the church for.


    There is NO difference between Jew or Gentile, both are SAME in God's sight.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
     
  3. LadyEagle

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    You are correct, wopik, but I've even heard preachers use the word Jew and Israel interchangeably. And in reality, there are 13 tribes all together. (Joseph's two sons, Ephraim and Manassah each are a tribe)

    Jews - Benjamin and Judah (Apostle Paul was from tribe of Benjamin, the light bearers)

    Ephraim - the 10 other tribes (except Levi)
    Levi - priests

    Interestingly in Rev. 7 where the 144,000 are listed, 12,000 from each tribe, the tribe of Dan is missing.

    Does anyone know why?
     
  4. Grasshopper

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    I read somewhere because of her extensive Idolatry, however I'm not sure about that. Dan is replaced by Manassah.

    Interestingly of the 12 disciples of the New Covenant one is also replaced(Judas).
     
  5. LadyEagle

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    Dan is replaced by the tribe of Levi. [​IMG]

    Manassah and Ephraim were 2 of the original tribes.
     
  6. Grasshopper

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    I got mine from Gen. 47.
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    Genesis 48:[8] And Israel beheld Joseph's sons, and said, Who are these?
    [9] And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
    [10] Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.
    [11] And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.
    [12] And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
    [13] And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel's left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel's right hand, and brought them near unto him.
    [14] And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
    [15] And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
    [16] The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.


    Gen.49
    [1] And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
    [2] Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.

    [3] Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:
    [4] Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.

    [5] Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.
    [6] O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
    [7] Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

    [8] Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.

    [9] Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

    [10] The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

    [11] Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

    [12] His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

    [13] Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon.

    [14] Issachar is a strong ass couching down between two burdens:
    [15] And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.

    [16] Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.
    [17] Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
    [18] I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

    [19] Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.

    [20] Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.

    [21] Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.

    [22] Joseph = Ephraim and Manasseh is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
    [23] The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
    [24] But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
    [25] Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
    [26] The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

    [27] Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

    [28] All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.


    Rev. Rev.7
    [4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
    [5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
    [6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
    [7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
    [8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph (Ephraim) were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    I read that Judas was from the tribe of Dan and perhaps the anti-Christ (?) could be from the tribe of Dan. The prophecy/blessing of Jacob above is about Dan the serpent. The standard of the tribe of Dan was a serpent. Don't know if there is anything in the Bible about that; requires more research. Does someone know?
     
  8. Paul of Eugene

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    If you read Judges the last three chapters you read how Dan failed to win their original assigned territory, went to an alternate territory, established idol worship, and took over an innocent city they shouldn't have to establish their territory.

    I can't help thinking this sin on their part is responsible for being left out of the revelation list. We get a full 12 names by listing the sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Manessah, as seperate tribes. (Gotta keep that mystical number 12 in there, you know) . . .
     

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