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Jim Baker is back on TV

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Plain Old Bill, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Bakker was confronted.

    As far as the others, they are teaching false doctrine. They have been confronted. They (the WF teachers) have denounced those who confront them and have even said God will strike them down.

    The Bible calls for personal confrontation when someone personally sins against you; false teachings are to be denounced to protect the body of Christ.

    What I posted on the Paul Crouch thread clearly shows false teachings and attacks on God and Christ by the WF teachers, LE. You cannot deny that. I did not start the threads on these topics; I merely posted information on them.

    You consider posting such information to be attacking and backbiting but you apparently do not seem to consider attacks on God and Christ by the WF teachers to be a bad thing since you have not expressed that at all.

    And I mainly post to respond to your seeming defenses of the WF teachers, or your continuing attacks on people who post the info on them. That I why I am posting; I am not carrying on nor am I ranting or railing. That is what you are doing.
     
  2. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Don't you see the obvious? Moses was not allowed to enter the Promised Land and David was not allowed to build the Temple.
     
  3. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Perhaps you ought to read Paul's epistles where he warns against false teachers. Jim Bakker preached a false gospel. Furthermore, you need to Biblically define gossiping, backbiting, etc. You're using these words for their emotional content (connotation), not their denotative meaning. You're way off base on your charges and innuendo. We're discussing truth, righteousness, and obedience, not emotional sentimentality.
     
  4. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    So, let us do evil that good may come out of it. What is your Scriptural basis?
     
  5. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Please reread my posts. I have stated repeatedely that I am not defending what Jim Bakker did wrong - neither will I negate all that he has done right.

    Are all the souls he led to the Lord canceled out because of all the people who were defrauded?

    This is simply not true. I know some people personally that gave money to PTL (but they did it of their own free will and were not coerced).

    I know many MORE people, however, that were not defrauded, but now have a home in Heaven - thanks to <gasp> Jim Bakker...

    "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."
    John 8:7

    I'm certainly not innocent enough to pick up a rock to throw at a man who has won more souls for the Kingdom than I ever will...

    "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."
    Isaiah 64:6

    §ue (defending the faith just like y'all)
    </font>[/QUOTE]And how many souls did Jim Bakker win for the Kingdom? In fact, I don't recall ever hearing him give a clear salvation presentation. Like the Pharisees, he made people even more the child of Hell with his wealth and health gospel.

    BTW, your Scriptures are out of context. They don't support or even deal with what you're trying to say. It is serious business when we try to make Scripture say what we want it to say. :(
     
  6. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    I am not defending what Jim bakker did; but you should not mention all the unbelievers who were turned off to Christianity and will end up in Hell without mentioning the millions of unbelievers who accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior while watching Jim Bakker on TV and are now going to Heaven... </font>[/QUOTE]Millions? IMHO, you would probably have trouble filling a single Greyhound bus with them. Jim preached a false gospel that diverted people from repentance and salvation to seeking health and wealth. There's no salvation there! Like the Pharisees, he made the religious seeker seven times more the child of Hell. [​IMG]

    Was God gloried? No! Were millions saved? No! However, thousands and thousands were deluded and bilked! Does God need Jim Bakker to advance His Kingdom? No!

    So, how do you compare the ones he turned toward Hell with a few supposedly saved? [​IMG]

    Show me!
     
  7. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    So what? Sin does not justify sin.
     
  8. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    So what? So did another Jim--supposedly! His name was Jim Jones. Remember him? If he were living, would we restore him and give him another shot. :confused:
     
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    You people are unbelievable. If this attitude is what you learn at your church, I pity you.
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Paidagogos - you are right on. The sin and evil done by that man transcend time and must never be forgotten. Thanks for answering each of the arguments given.

    Don't think ANYONE here is defending Bakker's history, just not wanting people to be so harsh on the BB.
     
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Exactly, Dr. Bob. [​IMG]
     
  12. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Well I wish I could say it looks like Jim has turned over a new leaf.Today I watched part of his SHOW where he now has an emergency and needs 150 people to give 1,000 dollars immediately.How can he be trusted.Besides that it looks like he is teaching the same old stuff.
    I am amazed he has a large enough following to get back on TV.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    paidagogos:

    You never answered one of my questions. All you did was to ask another question. I would assume by your response that you are not making disciples.

    The one single thing I look at is: Is the minstry, church or person making disciples? If they are not then they do not get my money, period. That by itself will cut out most ministries, including churches. The vast majority of churches just exist and therefore should not receive any money. Yet people are willing to send money to disobedient vessels. They spend large sums of money on programs and are happy to say they are doing God's work while they are playing.

    When I became a new Christian my example was a pastor who knocked on doors each week. People came to Christ and that was probably the most evangelistic church I have ever been in.
     
  14. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    gb: If you're ever in central IL, you must come and visit my church. We knock on doors every week AND have a bus ministry and the Pastor is actively involved in EVERYthing!

    We have discliping classes on a regular basis and sponsor more missionaries than any IFB church I've ever attended.
     
  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I agree. I just always wait and remember what Hebrews 13:7 says, "Remember those who led you, who spoke the word of God to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith."

    My personal philosophy is if one will never give to someone until he or she produces disciples, they will seldom go wrong. However, giving to those who make disciples will limit your giving to a very small number of obedient folks and ministries. The rest are either disobedient or not ready to step out as a mature ministry or individual because they have not proven themself first. How can anyone make disciples somewhere else when he or she has not proven themself first where they live now. Why support someone financially who has not proven themself first? I believe a lot of money is wasted on folks that are not making disciples. If every church was banned in the U.S., those making disciples now, would be the most likely to make disciples should every church be gone. So why not support them first?
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Isn't that a great feeling! What I saw as a new believer has challenged me for 32 years now. I have seen the fruit in huge bundles over the years. It certainly disputes those who sit home in fear and try to come up with some kind of program when all they need to do is meet people. God gives opportunity when we trust Him for boldness.
     
  17. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Please define "this attitude." How is this attitude wrong? What are you talking about? What Scriptural teaching has been violated? Is exposing and condemning wrongdoing un-Scriptural?

    I take it that you are arguing for a non-judgmental attitude. Do you realize that you have judged people on this board yourself? You are not arguing about ideas or actions or events but you have made a value judgment of persons when you say, “You people are unbelievable.” This is directed toward a person, not a behavior or idea. Furthermore, you have made innuendo against one’s church when you sneer, “If this attitude is what you learn at your church, I pity you.” This is shameful and unwarranted. Can you blame a whole church for one member’s actions? Perhaps a member’s attitude does reflect negatively upon his church but this is precisely the point that I made about Jim Bakker—he brought horrible reproach upon the Cause of Christ by his behavior especially since he was high profile and known internationally. Therefore, he ought not to be put in a high profile position again even though he may be forgiven of his sin.

    To do what you condemn in others is called hypocrisy--is it not? One must be true to his professed principles. In other words, one must live what he or she preaches. It’s easy to condemn in others what we allow in ourselves. If you’re going to take the position of not judging others, then you can’t judge others yourself.

    So, do you want to reconsider your post and tell me if you’re proud of it?
     
  18. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    First of all, I simply missed or overlooked your question. Second, the question smells somewhat of comparing ministries—a Christian success syndrome. I reject such a concept based on I Corinthians 4:1-7. Furthermore, this board is not a place, IMHO, for boasting or puffing our ministries. It is a forum for exchange of ideas and debate. However, I will candidly answer your question. The answer is an unqualified YES! We are holding forth a faithful witness, winning souls to Christ, and disciplining believers as well as comforting and aiding the afflicted. What more do you need?
     
  19. LorrieGrace

    LorrieGrace Member

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    I watch John Hagee often and have never heard him say to the congregation to come up and be healed. I know he is on TBN but does that make him a bad preacher?
     
  20. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    It may not be TBN, although it is a compromising heretical outlet, but it is his bad theology that's the problem. Oh, he has enough Bible truth to make him palable but that makes him all the more dangerous because most people are not able to discern between subtle error and truth.
     
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