Job 24

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Salamander, Aug 10, 2006.

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  1. Salamander

    Salamander
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    Since this was being addressed in a former discussion before it was closed "for obviour reasons", [inflammatory comments snipped] let's all look into the following to show where superimposing of idealologies is the error in this one particular version?

    Job 24:20-23,"The womb shall forget him ; the worm shall feed sweetly on him ; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree. He evil entreateth the barren that beareth not: and doeth not good to the widow. He draweth also the mighty with his power: he riseth up, and no man is sure of life. Though it be given him to be in safety, whereon he resteth; yet his eyes are upon their ways.


    Only in the Jameison,Faucet, Brown Commentary do I find that anyone other than very few versions impose that the context speak of "God" anywhere in the text. All others stay with the context and the flow of reason that this entire response by Job is speaking ONLY of wicked and evil men and thei actions.

    Some say that verse 22 is speaking of God, but the Hebrew makes no distinction other than gender and never refers to Deity, that gender being male.

    If one follows the flow of the verses, one that thinks God is the subject of verse 22 would also have to attribute the previous character traits to God as well.

    Does the womb forget God and the worms feed sweetly upon Him?

    Is God no more remembered and then become wicked and broken as a tree?

    Does God "evil entreat the barren" and do evil to the widow?

    These are the antics of the wicked and evil men spoken of in context that have taken out their wrath upon the poor and now would turn to the rich and mighty and ensnare them with their deceits and leave them without any hope of life.

    Is this your idea of what God is really like???

    Or, as it could only be established that the entire context only speaks of the evil and wicked men?

    Please deal with the subject at hand [inflammatory comments snipped]
     
    #1 Salamander, Aug 10, 2006
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  2. Bro Tony

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    Job 24:19-23 (New King James Version)


    19 As drought and heat consume the snow waters,So the grave[a]consumes those who have sinned. 20 The womb should forget him,
    The worm should feed sweetly on him;
    He should be remembered no more,
    And wickedness should be broken like a tree.
    21 For he preys on the barren who do not bear,
    And does no good for the widow.
    22 “But God draws the mighty away with His power;
    He rises up, but no man is sure of life.
    23 He gives them security, and they rely on it;
    Yet His eyes are on their ways.



    The NKJV does not state that God is from the womb,that He is a wicked and broken tree, nor does evil to the widow. You say these are antics of wicked and evil men, I agree, and so does the Scripture. You need to read again. Verses 19-21 speak of sinful men. Verses 22-23 speak of God dealing with these sinful men.

    In your zeal to prove your stand you try to make the Scripture in your non-preferred version say what it does not say. That truly is a shame. It is also a shame that as you bring up the issue and ask others to deal with the subject at hand, part of your post is deleted for using inflammatory language against God's Word.

    I encourage you [inflammatory wording snipped] at least read it and try with a little understand.

    Bro Tony
     
    #2 Bro Tony, Aug 10, 2006
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  3. Bro Tony

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    I also wanted to add that we must remember that the KJV does not capitalize pronouns that refer to diety. It really should have for clarity sake. I am grateful to the tranlators of the NKJV for doing so.

    Bro Tony
     
  4. Salamander

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    Oh, I agree that the NKJV states what it does, but it is in gross error to jump out of context with an assumption of it's own without any of the Hebrew ever saying what the translators say it does, or did you not check the Hebrew?



    And what is my stand? That I believe the verses you've quoted are in error? Yes. So do MOST who studied the Bible for most of their lives.


    Just what are you talking about? I made that distinction as to make this NOT a KJVO/MV discussion and you're DEMANDING it against MY wishes. I invite you to saty out of this discussion if you cannot refrain from attempting this again.


    I haven't done any such thing, you are bearing a false witness.:praying:
     
  5. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I am going to close this thread if the personal squabble does not cease.

    Fellas, I am not going to tolerate turning every thread into a KJVO thread, from either direction.
     
  6. Salamander

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    [off topic commenrs snipped]

    The NKJV uses "God" in the verse as well as two other versions out of multitudes that do not and those stay with the context and the Hebrew.

    The NKJV is way out on a limb and has added to scripture. It has also went against the harmony of the Gospel in so doing by altering the Word of God by introducing that God has to "rise up" and then leaves the very men He has come to give life and that more abundantly in GROSS ERROR!

    [off topic comments snipped]
     
    #6 Salamander, Aug 10, 2006
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  7. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    This is a valid thread, but I will not let it become a petty squabble between two or more posters and will not allow it to become a KJVO discussion.
     
  8. Salamander

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    [off topic comments snipped]
     
    #8 Salamander, Aug 10, 2006
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  9. Salamander

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    [off topic comments snipped]
     
    #9 Salamander, Aug 10, 2006
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  10. Bro Tony

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    No false witness---you have slammed the NKJV and you do not understand the context.

    Bro Tony
     
  11. Salamander

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    I have "slammed" the translation of the verse in question. You have slandered me. C4K has slandered me BYE!
     
  12. PastorSBC1303

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    :wavey:bye bye
     
  13. Bro Tony

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    Goodbye Sal, wish you could stay and deal with the issue instead of becoming the issue. Seems like too many wanna be martyrs in the church today.:wavey:

    Bro Tony
     
  14. Deacon

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    Seems many people have a preset agenda.

    The passage is a bit perplexing.

    Since the passage doesn’t always clearly identify what Job is speaking about, understanding his argument is crucial to understanding who he is talking about.

    Job’s speech begins in chapter 23

    Warren Wiersbe provides an outline and brief commentary:

    God is hiding from me (Job 23:1–12).
    God is frightening me (Job 23:13–17).
    God perplexes me (Job 24:1–25)

    "This passage may be seen as a description, telling what will happen to the wicked (KJV, NIV, NASB); or it may be interpreted as a denunciation, a curse on the wicked (NKJV).
    I think it refers to Job’s personal curse on the wicked, who seem to escape judgment.

    Job’s malediction can be summarized like this: “May the wicked vanish like foam on the water or snow that melts in the heat of the sun (vv. 18–19). May they be forgotten by everyone, even their own mothers, as they rot in the grave (v. 20). May their wives be barren and give them no heirs (v. 21). May their sense of security and success vanish quickly as they are brought low, mowed down like wheat in the harvest” (vv. 22–24)."

    Warren Wiersbe, (1996, c1991). Be Patient. An Old Testament study. (Job 23:1). Wheaton, Ill.: Victor Books.

    Rob
     
    #14 Deacon, Aug 10, 2006
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  15. Phillip

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    For the record--I have read the entire thread and do not see that C4K has slandered anybody, although he has certainly put up with more than he is required to.
    Thank you for the hard work in keeping YET ANOTHER thread from falling into the well. :thumbs:

    Bye, Salamander, I miss you already, 'scuse me a minute while I think about how much I'll miss you. :sleep:
     
  16. Trotter

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    I know somebody who'll need to go to the altar this Sunday...
     
  17. Keith M

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    Talk about false witness! C4K has done nothing to slander anyone in this thread - or any other thread I have ever seen. All he has done is to moderate without bias to either side - the sign of a good moderator. Keep on keepin' on, Roger!

    Bye-bye, Salamander!
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Since the original poster has left this thread is being closed.
     
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