Job 4. 17-21

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Frogman, Mar 26, 2003.

  1. Frogman

    Frogman
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    "Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker? Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom." Job 4.17-21

    Is this enough to convince you that God has not given to man the ability to choose of his own will?

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  2. Yelsew

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    Well, NO! I do not see that as proof positive. These words of Eliphaz the Temanite are an expression of human opinion!
     
  3. Frogman

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    But they are recorded in the Canon of Scripture, a record inspired and approved of God and given to men by God the Holy Spirit. Whether or not you or I agree with them is why we are hear. The Word of God does not change based on our approval.

    Give them some thought, do a word study. Go deeper into the Words.

    I admire you Yelsew because you say what you believe and you stand there. I know some, not really here on the BB cause I know no one personally, but in other places who say what they believe, but away from the brethren, they are yes men. I do not respect this. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but Scripture and the Holy Spirit must prove me wrong. Men cannot, on the other hand, I recognize I cannot prove any other wrong, but Scripture and the Holy Spirit must teach us discernment of truth and error.

    Keep on Keeping On Brother, your pushing and prodding forces me to search the scriptures, this is always a good thing.

    Now, I look forward to what you really believe about the scripture at hand and not such a ready dismissal.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  4. Yelsew

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    Though I believe that all scripture is given by inspiration and is good for edification, I do not believe that all scripture is directive in nature. In fact there is but a small percentage of the bible that should be considered directive in nature. The rest of the bible is, by its very nature, informative... the "knowledge" part that "my people" are lacking. The informative part is there to inform us in the way that we as believers, are to live our lives, and for the most part, what it means to be Christian. And there is another informative part that gives a glimpse into the future that for the unbeliever is an image of terror, but for the believer is bay-window on eternity.

    I want you to know that I have deep respect for you even though my writing style and choice of words and thoughts don't often reflect that respect. I believe that if we were to come face to face for a while that we would become good friends for eternity because we both are tenacious in our beliefs, and we both are easy going, not quick to anger.

    I pray and prepare for reading the scripture by asking the Holy Spirit to illuminate the meaning of the thoughts that are being conveyed by the words on the page. Digging into individual words is useful where the meaning of the thought is less than clear, or where the thought can have more than one meaning.

    When did you say you were going to the Northwest?
     
  5. Frogman

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    We originally planned to go this week to meet the church and perhaps preach there if the Lord is willing.

    Many in the church are away this week due to 'spring break' from school during the week, same as myself. An elder in the church and myself discussed this and decided to postpone the trip until more of the church members could have the opportunity to be there. As of now it looks like our trip will coincide with Easter weekend, April 18-21.

    The church has initially called me to pastor; the trip is to provide an opportunity to meet face to face to determine better each party's doctrinal belief before either party makes a choice. I believe this is only fair, though I believe the Lord has opened this opportunity, I do have questions and I am certain the church there has questions of myself that are best discussed face to face.

    As it now stands, my wife and I will make the trip in late April.

    Brother Dallas [​IMG]

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. Ray Berrian

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    You were wrong 'before you got out of the gate' in the first phrase quoted in vs. 17 by Eliphaz as noted in Job 4:17-21. At least he believed that God is just, the God of justice, Who will not arbitrarily damn the majority of His created beings called humankind. The justice of God insures the fact that He will not topple people into Hell, at will. 'Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.' [I Tim. 2:6] Also, I Peter 1:17 indicates that God is not 'a respecter of persons' and that He is fair in all of His ways. A good read about the attribute of God's justice would hopefully give some a balanced view of Almighty God.

    An unfettered will in human beings comes with no 'extra charge.' The bondage of the will is not even in the Lord's inventory.
     
  7. Abiyah

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    Let's see. Dallas. Baptist. Coming to the
    Northwest to pastor. Hm-m-m-m. Well, I live in
    the Northwest in a little place where there are so
    many Baptist churches that it is incredible, but I
    have yet to find one that is very active. Here, it is
    Sunday morning and that is it.

    I would love to see someone come to this area and
    lights some fires under some of the people to find
    out if they are dead or just cold. 8oD It has been
    an amazing experience here!

    After searching for a Baptist church to attend
    sometimes while my husband went to his church, I
    finally went to the one down the street. What an
    experience. I walked in, sat in the back, and waited
    for church to begin. The pastor sent a lady to sit
    by me, and it was obvious that she did not want to.,
    because she had been with her friend. I told her
    that it was fine, but she said, "This is the way we do
    things here." 8o/

    She sat down, then insisted that I go sit in the front
    with her. I declined. She insisted. I did. They took
    the offering by everyone marching up and putting
    their money in a basket in front of everybody. I
    didn't want to. Only at my persistence would she
    take my money up for me. 8o\

    They wanted to make a big issue of my being there.
    They asked me to fill in a bunch of information so
    that I could be brought up to the front and
    welcomed. I said no, that I just wanted to be quiet.
    They said they would do it anyway. I asked why.
    They said, "Because that is the way we do things
    here." I found a way to slip out and go home just
    before they said they would do this.

    She asked for my phone number. She would be
    calling me. She didn't.

    That was the last time I tried to attend a church.

    So come here, Dallas, and wake this place up.
    The Baptist churches here are either dead or its
    their way or no way, period. 8oD
     
  8. Frogman

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    Abiyah,

    We will be travelling to Craig, Alaska. Lord willing.

    Thanks for the encouragement, continue to pray for us.

    I know some churches around here who collect the offering as you have described and have heard of some who behave in collecting information as you described, though these latter I have never witnessed. We at Grider make visitors welcome, but do not attempt to 'go home' with them. :D

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Frogman

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    Thanks brother Ray for the post.

    I disagree with your view that Calvinism teaches the majority of the created beings of God will be damned. I do believe if no man save Christ were in heaven, God would still be worthy of Praise by the angels and I believe His justice is not subject to my temporal understanding of the concept.

    Will get further involved later. My wife's family just called and informed us her great-grandmother passed away this morning. She is a child of God and was blessed with a long life of 99, would have turned 100 August 10, 2003.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. ScottEmerson

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    Sympathy to your wife and your family on this loss. I am sure that the funeral, sad though it may be, will be filled with warm thoughts in the ways that she affected her family's life.
     
  11. Ray Berrian

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    Brother Dallas,

    Tell your wife that I am sorry for her loss. When my mother died a couple of years ago my first thought was, "I'll never be able to talk to her again." Both your wife's great grandmother was saved as was my mother. They are now praising our Redeemer. Sudden death! Sudden glory! And someday we will be able to communicate with them in Heaven.
     
  12. Yelsew

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    My sincere condolence to you and your wife in the passing of her Great Grandmother from the pain and agony of old age in this physical life, to the eternal youth of life with Jesus.

    I rejoice with you in her passing.
     
  13. Frogman

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    Thanks brethren for the prayers and kind words.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    Brother Dallas... My prayers go with you, your wife and family at the passing of her great grandmother... The Lord surely blessed her past three score and ten... Isn't it a joyous but sad occasion when one of the Mothers of Zion are called to her long sought home [​IMG] ... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     

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