John 14:14 and Revelation 14:1

Keith, THE KJV has no contradictions on John 5:31 and 8:14 because 2 words are DIFFERENT, but modern versions have contradictions on both passages because their 2 words are SAME. You are not careful to look closely.

False? No, you are mistaken. NIV has two SAME words, "testimomy." The KJV has two DIFFERENT words, "witness" and "record." I did not see the contradiction on the KJV. You posted the KJV showing no contradiction here:

I agree. Jesus has no contradiction on the KJV, but He has the contradiction on modern versions.

Can't you see "SAME" phrases but "not" on Genesis 2:17 and 3:4? God warned Adam if he ate the fruit, God said:

The Satan, the serpent tempted Eve saying,

Look at God's statement and Satan's statement: Were they same? No, you know that.

My error? No you make a mistakes. Did God tell Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit or they will die? No, God told Adam only before He gave him a new wife, Eve.

Correct.

Correct, I know that.

 

Two passages in the Gospel of John on the KJV showed the difference between 2 words: record and witness. They did not contradict with the diety of Jesus Christ. My point on Gospel of John and Genesis is the SAME phrases and "not" for illustration where you can see the contradiction on modern versions.

 

Interesting. I had no idea. So it is your position that the Apostle John had a contradiction? Because he used the same word in both verses.

So look at God and Satan? Are they the same? No, you know that. So what God said and what Satan said are two different things.

Clearly, you are still running down the wrong road, an indefensible spot on the Bible that puts you in the place of attacking God's word by saying it isn't true.

 

Two different words in English, BUT essentially having the same meaning, AND representing the same Greek word. That word is martyreo (Strong's #3140) and is translated as "bear witness", "give testimony", and "bear record" at various places in the KJV. Simply stating that they are different (in spelling) is NOT enough.

So, we see no substantial difference between "record" and "witness" within these parallel contexts. Perhaps you can explain the meaningful difference to us? Be aware that if you choose to make a differentiation here that you will be suggesting that the KJV translation must be more inspired that the words evidently written by the apostle in Greek under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

 

Same meaning? I strongly disagree with what you said.

What is record?

What is witness?

You are right they represented the same Greek word. The KJV translators were very wise to correctly translate them.

 

:sleeping_2:

:type:

raying:

I pray that you two learn to see past the KJVO nonsense you have been indoctrinated with.

 

Wow ... Unbelievable. It seems to me you have to conclude that the Holy Spirit was unwise to inspire the same word, but the KJV translators were wise to choose two different words.

And the sad thing is that you might not even understand the implications of what you are saying.

 

That's from Crosswalk.com. I found it in the paper book NIV included the latter part.

 

Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

From http://biblestudy.crosswalk.com/mybst/default.aspx?type=bible&reference=2pe 1:1&translation=niv

So Crosswalk.com doesn't even have the way you claimed.

 

I don't make the final judgment on Re 14:1.

But John 14:14 is very clear, and KJV is correct!

I am quite sure that some mss or texts included "ME" which didbn't exist in the original mss, in order to satisfy their theology, because they wondered when Jesus said, "I will do it"
So, they thought one should pray to Jesus, so that Jesus perform it. However, they didn't know that we should pray to Father in the name of Jesus, then Jesus will do it !


If we read the Bible, Jesus never rejected any homage to Him, but on the other hand, He all the time emphasized the obedience to the Sender, His Father. It is not new to us that Jesus taught the people to pray to God the Father as we read Matt 6:6.



Then we read another verses in John 16: 23

23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
( no ME !)

Look at this, look at how Jesus says here, Prayer without mentioning any addressee for the prayer, because it is clear that the Addressee is Father.



24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. ( no ME !)

Again the same style appears here:

26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: (no ME!) he Himself prayed to the Father !

John 15:7
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Addressee for the prayer is not mentioned, because the addressee is the same all the time.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.




John 14:

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


Matthew 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly



1 Cor 11:13
Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered

2 Cor 13:7
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates

1 Thess 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus

2 Tim 4:16
At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.

ASK
Matt 6:8
Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Matthew 7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Mt 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

John 11:22
But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.


James 1:5

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him



Where did Jesus ever tell the people to ask Jesus Himself in His name?

KJV is absolutely correct, and Vatican Texts added "ME" without understanding what Jesus was teaching about.

 

check here:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...rd=2+pet+1&section=2&version=niv&new=1&oq=ask

1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, 2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness

 

Eliyahu, Preach it ! Amen!

 

The KJV is very clear on John 14:13-14. This passages spoke of "in my name" What does this mean to you?

John 14:123-14 KJV

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 14:13-14 NIV

13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Why not ADD "ME" on verse 13 in modern versions? Huh?

 

Have you considered that this might possibly be erroneous, for whatever reason, with someone having left a phrase out, when transcribing to a computer page? FTR , the omission by someone else, would in no manner be the 'fault' of or an omission by the NIV.

Check these sites out, by contrast.

1. Bible gateway:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=II Peter 1:1&version=31

2. studylight.org

http://studylight.org/desk/?l=en&query=II+Peter+1:1&section=0&translation=niv&oq=&sr=1

3. http://lookhigher.net/

(The site listed in the thread titled "Cool Site" which is just a few threads below this one )

http://www.ibsstl.org/bible/verse/index.php?q=2+Peter+1:1&niv=yes&submit=Lookup

Hmmm! These three all have it the same way.

So have you considered that the site you are referencing, may have erroneously left out the last half of the verse, for whatever reason, and only cited the first half?

In addition, I have just checked my bride's "phone Bible" which has the NIV on it, and the "hard copy" NIV we possess, both of which read in this above manner, as well. I have found two other sites, that also read as above, and you said you had read this in "the paper book NIV" which collective makes a total of 8 sites that get this right, as in "the paper book" you mentioned.

The NIV was not even available on the Internet (being that VP Al Gore hadn't yet gotten around to 'inventing the Internet' ), in 1973. Thus the "paper book" is correct here. The NIV simply doesn't actually read (at least here) in the manner in which you were indicting - 'er I mean indicating.

FTR, I am not any great fan of the NIV, nor do I foresee any likelihood that I will ever become one. However "Facts is facts!" in any event.

Ed

 

If Y bere witnessing of my silf, my witnessyng is not trewe; (Jn. 5:31 - WYC)

Are you saying that John Wycliffe, John Wesley, Noah Webster, Robert Young and John Nelson Darby all got this wrong by incorrectly translating the same Greek word in the same way, in these two verses?

Ed

 

We are on the Thread about John 14:14

NIV
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


TNIV
13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

NASB
13 "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

ASB
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do.


HCSB
13 Whatever you ask in My name, I will do it, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

ESV
13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

NLT
13 You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, because the work of the Son brings glory to the Father. 14 Yes, ask anything in my name, and I will do it!

RSV

13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.


Good News
13 And I will do whatever you ask for in my name, so that the Father's glory will be shown through the Son. 14 If you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.


NKJV
13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it

Darby
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, this will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it

Comments:

1. In addition to KJV group and Darby, NLT, RSV, ASB do not have ME in verse 14.

2. In verse 13, none of the Bibles have “ ME”

3. Asking Jesus in the name of Jesus is a nonsense, IMO, because it is the same as Jesus asks Jesus for anything
Praying in the name of Jesus means we have obtained the full authorization to use His name. God accepts our prayer as if the prayer came from Jesus when we pray in the name of Jesus.

Praying to Jesus in the name of Jesus means Jesus prays Jesus Himself, does it make sense?

When we pray to God, Jesus will do it ! Can you understand this Truth?

John 14:14 - This is a good example showing how much ridiculous the MV's are. Thanks for bringing this issue.

 

So, you accused the NIV of a "serious deletion" of a portion of scripture that you knew was actually in the NIV text (just behind the next verse number)? That seems worse that if you had simply made a gross error!

 

I already told enough that I just brought it from Crosswalk.com and discovered it omits the latter part of the verse. How many times should I explain this? Read my excuse in other threads.

 

2 Peter 1
KJV

1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to F2 glory and virtue:

NIV

1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, 2 Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...1&oq=&NavBook=2pe&NavGo=1&NavCurrentChapter=1

I discovered this error by Crosswalk.com later.

You can see the mistake is that Crosswalk.com omitted the latter part of the verse completely, and it is not in the verse 2.

 

Rev 14:1

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

I have searched the verses having the names, and found some interesting points there.

Can we see any verses where both names of God the Father and of His Son together?

I say this because we remember the famous verse Matthew 28:19 which is often quoted for Trinity, showing one name for 3 Godheads, which means that one singular name is shared by Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

So, I have found clearly that only one name is mentioned whenever God or Jesus was mentioned. But someone may point out Re 3:12 which is not certain for such proof that both names are different.

Even Jesus said that He came in the name of Father.

Everything is shared by 3 Godheads, and even the Holy Spirit came in the name Jesus.
Then, in Acts 2:38, Peter preached that everyone should be baptized in the name of Jesus. This is a proof that one name was shared by Godheads,


Even in Re 3:12, name of my God and my new name can be the same.

Therefore, KJV may be correct again in Rev 14:1, having one name of Father, despite the scarcity of the supporting manuscripts.

I don't think, they have Father's name and Sons Name separately.

In fact, I believe the manuscripts of Revelation are not very well organized and we don't know how many mss support " His name" and how many do not.
Often KJV has the support from the most reliable mss and shows its excellence in many cases. In this case KJV has a good reason for not having His name.

Followings are the verses related to the names.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark 11:9
And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
10
Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


John 14:26

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you

John 17:6
I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Ac 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Ro 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Eph 5:20
Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Phil 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

1 Tim 6:1
Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.


1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.


Re 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.