John 14:17 "with you"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Nov 19, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jn. 17:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    Consider carefully what this text says and what it contrasts Christ's disciples with ("the world" - religous and non-religious lost)

    1. The lost world CANNOT RECEIVE but they RECEIVED Him.
    2. The lost world CANNOT SEE but they they SAW HIM - by faith as he is invisible.
    3. The lost world cannot KNOW Him - but they KNEW Him.
    4. He dwelt in them INDIVIDUALLY but not COPORATELY as the New Temple of God.

    Now, lets consider what Christ asserts to be fact about their relationship with the Holy Spirit LONG BEFORE He breathed on them in John 20.

    1. They had individually RECEIVED the Spirit. When? When all believers both before and after Calvary did at the time of faith in the gospel (Eph. 1:13-14).

    2. They had SEEN the Holy Spirit. However, the Holy Spirit is spirit and no man can visibly see him. They saw him BY FAITH.

    3. They KNEW the Holy Spirit on an personal individual level because He dwelt with them on a personal individual level.

    They had the indwelling Spirit individually because they were capable of understanding and being taught by Jesus while the world was not:

    1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    Mt. 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
    10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
    11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given
    ..

    Conclusion: To you it has been given thus you have EARS TO HEAR but they do not

    Rev. 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;

    Conclusion: The Lord's disciples in John 14 received, knew and had ears to hear what the Spirit saith to them. Lost people do not!

    The apostles were given ears to hear WHAT THE SPIRIT SAITH unto them as members of the first church at Jerusalem.

    However, as a COPORATE body of baptized beleivers they had not received the indwelling Spirit which was promised and did occur on Pentecost.

    Hence, again the difference between their relationship to the Holy Spirit as INDIVIDUALS and as a COPORATE BODY OF BAPTIZED MEMBERS is the difference between the "temple" in 1 Cor. 3:16 and the "temple" in 1 Cor. 6:17.
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    the Holy spirit was with them upon them NOT indweling them though, that took pentacost!
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    You cannot overthrow what I said so you simply give talking points. Anyone can give talking points about anything but that does not make it true!
     

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