John 14:6

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Precepts, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. Precepts

    Precepts
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    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    In another sickening thread about the Greek and it's so called superiority, it was introduced by "GB" the verse above in his effort to say the English rendering dos this verse an injustice as it allegedly does not relate the meaning properly.

    I believe if everyone will lay aside their weaponry and simply discuss the issue at hand we would all be much better off, if we can't, then it will be a time to separate.

    Thank you for anyone having any INPUT, not more skullduggery.
     
  2. ScottEmerson

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    I like the literal translation of the ALT:

    "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life! No one comes to the Father except through [or, by means of] Me."

    "Through" instead of "by" is a small change, but represents the Greek "di'" more effectively, I think. Many of the modern translations use the more effective "through" in this verse.
     
  3. Precepts

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    I believe Jesus was more saying that those must come "by" His sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary. The word "through" indicates the same thing, but when taken literally, it could be taken that the beleiver must enter into His bodily image to get to the Father.

    "Through" and "by" are synonymous in this respect, but neither does not indicate more than that. I believe it is of more importance of the subject matter of His being the way, the truth, and the life. Through the way, the truth, the life, is by the way, the truth, the life.

    Either way, by or through Jesus is more than waht simply meets the eye in this verse as to be fully understood by what Jesus was saying.
     
  4. gb93433

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    My Bible says in Ephesians that I have the weaponry God gives. So why lay it aside?


    Let's get honest here. You didn't quote me and you know nothing about Greek so how can you make any statements to that effect. Why would anyone want to listen to someone who just wants to make excuses? For one you never answered in any response to me about what I wrote about Jn 14:6 and James 2:16.

    Just debate the facts not your emotions. Did you ever look up how a Greek pronoun is used in Jn 14:6? The English does not make use of that at all. It totally ignores that pronoun as though it doesn't exist.
     
  5. Precepts

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    I usually don't act prematurely, but this helps me decide.
     
  6. Precepts

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    BTW, is that your shoes shod with the Gospel of peace I saw under the devil's table ?

    You did ask me to look into the scriptures and I did. You came out warring against your brother in Christ. Then you claim to have the armour of God as described in Ephesians 6, but that is for fighting the principalities and powers of the air, not your brother in Christ.

    Either we you're not my brother in Christ and lost, or you're just misinformed. Maybe there is something in the Greek for you, but you should come "by" Calvary on your way. The Book of John is a good place to start, and John 1:1 does lead up to 14:6 and beyond.

    James 2:16 ought to be your practice after John 14:6, not before.
     
  7. Craigbythesea

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    Did you ever look up how a Greek pronoun is used in Jn 14:6?

    I don’t get it. What Greek pronoun are you talking about? Are you talking about the preposition? What is wrong with the KJV here? Many translators prefer “by” over “through.” I don’t see that the KJV has any more of a problem translating the Greek preposition than does any other translation. There is no really good equivalent in English for the Greek preposition διά. :( This is an excellent example of how reading the New Testament in Greek is important for a complete understanding of the words that Jesus spoke. [​IMG]

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 (KJV)
     
  8. Precepts

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    CBTS, I understood the meaning of John 14:6 w/o the Greek. Why do I need to make three left turns to get to where i am already at?
     
  9. robycop3

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    Because the earliest versions of that Scripture that we know of were written in Greek. The English versions are supposed to be the most accurate translations of that Greek into English. The translation should be governed by its sources, shouldn't it?
     
  10. Precepts

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    It is governed by it's source: God. And the KJB is God's "governed" Word.

    I'll use this example: I just asked my wife, "Would you rather be kissed "by" me, or "through" me?" She just kissed me! [​IMG]
     
  11. GrannyGumbo

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    Oooooo~ BroRicky...mushy, mushy! Ain't that sweet, tho?!
     
  12. gb93433

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    No you don't understand the full inmpact, you just think you do. The English cannot possibly arrive at the full intensity of what was said unless it explains a little more.

    A little more study might help to better understand what Jesus really said.

    Prov. 1:5-7, "A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
     
  13. robycop3

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    robycop3:Because the earliest versions of that Scripture that we know of were written in Greek. The English versions are supposed to be the most accurate translations of that Greek into English. The translation should be governed by its sources, shouldn't it?

    Precepts:It is governed by it's source: God. And the KJB is God's "governed" Word.

    Never said it wasn't. BUT-is the KJV God's ONLY "governed" word in English? I say, no. Proof? the other versions that existed both before and after the AV 1611. If you say "yes", please provide proof.
     
  14. Craigbythesea

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    Precepts,

    Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, and Danker, in their Greek Lexicon, devote more than four columns of fine print to elucidate the meaning of the Greek preposition that is translated “by” in the KJV. Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament devotes five and a half pages to elucidate the meaning. I find it rather interesting that you are able to get all of that elucidation out of a two-letter English translation of the Greek word. :rolleyes:

    And as for your example of kissing your wife, that was an excellent example of your misunderstanding the preposition, for διά, when used with the accusative case as in your example, has a different meaning than it does when used with the genitive case as in John 14:6. [​IMG]

    :D :D :D
     
  15. Jesus is Lord

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    I didn´t know there was a discussion... there is absolutely no German translation of the Bible that doesn´t say "through me".
     
  16. Craigbythesea

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    Maybe we should start a German Bibles Only thread! :D :D :D
     
  17. Precepts

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    You mean it took the Greek scholars that many pages to undertand just one little word? I understood the passage and what Jesus means when He said to come "by" Him. I haven't got much time right now, but much can be said about the verse. To say that the one little preposition requires that much discussion is a wee bit more than humorous. [​IMG]
     
  18. Craigbythesea

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    No, you have it backwards (as usual)! :( :( :( :( :( :(
     
  19. gb93433

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    No those who understand Greek don't need an explanation. It is for the benfit of those who don't. In fact what was mentioned is basic elementary Greek grammar. It is kind of like when you study English. One who knows English well does not need an explanation. But those who don't understand do.

    If you would like something a little more challenging look up the word (logos) for "word" in Jn. 1:1.
     
  20. Jesus is Lord

    Jesus is Lord
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    That´s not what I wanted to do ;)
     

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