John 19:34

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jan 22, 2016.

  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Alive, living, willing, consciously, desiring, obediently, BEING the Saviour, Jesus Christ shed no blood but through the pouring out of his invincible LIFE by his OWN will and power to either "lay down (his) life" or "take up (his) life again".

    "He made Sacrifice of Himself", was not made sacrifice of by any.

    In John 19:34 the dead body of Jesus was pierced unknowingly in passive deference of and obedience to prophecy—, not intentionally to kill life, but intentionally to confirm death.
    There is no saving power in blood from the dead which protrude not as blood, but as the substance, "
    blood-and-water". Or once again the Roman Catholic blasphemous idolatry prevails, dead water and dead wine, mixed, declared to be 'This, the blood of Jesus, drink!'

    Allegation:

    “~There is no reading that Jesus "spit" this out, but that He drank.~”

    John19:29,30
    Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar

    σκεῦος ἔκειτο ὄξους μεστόν· σπόγγον οὖν μεστὸν τοῦὄξους
    A pot of vinegar was used, then a sponge dipped in vinegar

    and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.

    ὑσσώπῳ περιθέντες προσήνεγκαν αὐτοῦ τῷ στόματι.
    wrapped onto a stick they brought to his mouth.


    30When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:

    ὅτε οὖν ἔλαβεν τὸ ὄξος ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν Τετέλεσται,

    When therefore he had encountered the vinegar, Jesus said: It is enough, this does it, it is the end!

    And he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    καὶ κλίνας τὴν κεφαλὴν παρέδωκεν τὸ πνεῦμα.

    It is not written that Jesus <~drank~>

    Markus 15:36

    And the one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and on a reed,

    δραμὼν δέ τις καὶ γεμίσας σπόγγον ὄξους περιθεὶς καλάμῳ

    ... gave him to drink, saying, Let alone;

    ἐπότιζεν αὐτόν, λέγων Ἄφετε

    let us see whether Elias will kom to take him down.

    ἴδωμεν εἰ ἔρχεται Ἡλείας καθελεῖν αὐτόν.

    Matteus 27:48,49

    And straightway one of them ran, and took

    καὶ εὐθέως δραμὼν εἷς ἐξ αὐτῶν καὶ λαβὼν

    a spunge ...filled with vinegar ...put around a reed

    σπόγγον πλήσας τε ὄξους καὶ περιθεὶς καλάμῳ

    and gave him to drink. 49 The rest said, Let be,

    ἐπότιζεν αὐτόν.49 οἱ δὲ λοιποὶ εἶπαν Ἄφες·

    let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

    Ἴδωμεν εἰ ἔρχεται Ἡλείας σώσων αὐτόν.

    The two words ἐπότιζεν αὐτόν, literally isolated, are impossible. ‘Auton’–‘him’ an Accusative, demands “gave” must be added to get “him” to receive the action being an Accusative. The KJV therefore renders the Imperfect, “he was drinking” with an Infinitive, “_gave_ him _to_ drink”.

    It is not written that Jesus <~drank~>. The KJV is correct, having translated, "gave him to drink" but he did not drink.


    Allegation:

    The Lord Jesus asked the Father if the cup might pass by Him. There is simply no getting around that.


    There is simply no getting around the fact Jesus did not ask the Father that the cup might pass Him by. Jesus prayed the Father that his, Jesus', drinking and emptying the cup must be his Father's will rather than his own will, fulfilled—, that is, be obeyed. Jesus therefore prayed his Father, "Bring this cup on for Me as your will that shall be done and not mine” so that I may DRINK IT SPIRITUALLY and not physically. That is what Jesus did do in the flesh of the alive, lowly Servant of the LORD.

     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    You are entirely wrong. The Greek verb lambano, of which the 3rd person aorist active is elaben, ἔλαβεν. means to 'receive' or to 'take.' Specifically, it is the word used in Rev. 22:17; 'And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take of the water of life.'

    In Mark 15:23, our Lord 'did not take' (ouk elaben) the sour wine at that time, for it was an analgesic, and He had to experience the full weight of God's wrath against sin. But in John 19:30, propitiation had already been made and the Lord Jesus specifically requested a drink ('I thirst') in order that Psalm 69:21 might be fulfilled. Therefore he 'took' or 'received' (elaben) the wine vinegar.

    As for our Lord's blood not being shed, you'd better hope it was, for, 'Without the shedding of blood there is no remission [of sins]' (Heb. 9:22).
     
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  3. beameup

    beameup
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    Reminds me of some of those "bot" (robot) postings that string-together English words in random order.
     
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Do you really still make sacrifices?
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Heb. 9:24-28 (cf. also 13:8); Romans 12:1.
     
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  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    I tried to do it like Dr. Seuss for you, but I couldn't get it to rhyme. :D
     
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  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Then why have you hoped on Hebrews 9:22, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission [of sins] … BY THE LAW”?
     
  8. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Then why have you hoped on Hebrews 9:22, “Without the shedding of blood there is no remission [of sins] … BY THE LAW”?

    "The life is in the blood" of animals; the blood is in the Life of the Lamb of God.

    “I pour out my soul in Me. … my soul is cast down in Me.” Psalm 42;4,6

    “Pour out thine heart like water before the face of the LORD: Lift up thine hands toward Him for the life of thine young children.” Lamentations 2:11. “His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling to the ground.” Luke 22:44. “A Man of Sorrows and acquainted with grief … He poured out his soul unto death.” Isaiah 53:3,12. “I poured out my soul before the LORD.” 1Samuel 1:15. “Now my soul is poured out upon Me; the days of affliction have taken hold upon Me. My bones are pierced in Me in the night-season.” Job 30:16,17.


    “The Church of Christ which He has purchased with his on blood.” Acts 20:28.

    By the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight … BUT NOW the Righteousness OF GOD without the Law is manifested … even the Righteousness OF GOD BY FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE … all being justified freely BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is IN CHRIST JESUS Whom God set forth a Propitiation through FAITH in his blood declaring his Righteousness [his Life] for the remission of sins.” Romans 3:20-25,

    Romans 5:8-11,

    Ephesians 1:7,

    Colossians 1:14,15,

    Hebrews 9:12,

    Matthew 27:4,

    Proverbs 6:17; Isaiah 59:7 John 13:27,
     
    #8 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 4, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  9. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Heb. 9:22. 'And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no remission [of sins].'

    The writer to the Hebrews tells us that at the time he was writing,the Mosaic Law was 'obsolete and growing old [and] ready to pass away' (Heb. 8:13). I take it that it finally disappeared in AD 70. But Jesus Christ did not come to destroy the law or the prophets but to fulfil (Matt. 5:17). He has made the one, perfect, acceptable sacrifice to God in the shedding of His own blood (eg. Matt. 26:28; Acts 20:28; Rom. 3:25; 5:9; Eph. 1:7; 2:13; Col. 1:20; Heb. 10:19; 13:12; 1 Peter 1:19; 1 John 1:7; Rev. 1:5; 5:9) to fulfil all the types and shadows of the Old Covenant..
     
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    "~He has made the one, perfect, acceptable sacrifice to God in the shedding of His own blood~"

    How much blood of his was that?

    Not a molecule of.

    But all his blood "~shedding out" HIS SOUL.
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    If He didn't bleed when He was shedding His blood, do you think He got wet when He was baptized? Rolleyes
     
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  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    It is not written once Jesus shed blood. Fact. It was written He shed or poured out his SOUL, "making of HIMSELF, Sacrifice", "pouring out his SOUL -- his LIFE -- an Offering".

    He did not bleed when He was shedding out His soul and laid down his LIFE by the SAME POWER He took up his LIFE again.

    BOTH things Jesus accomplished by DIVINE POWER without the shedding of blood whatsoever of animal life whether the blood of sheep and goats or human flesh.

    Roman Catholicism is the Blood Cult; true believers need no blood but enter into His Rest through Faith of the Son of Man the Son of God Jesus the human Man of Nazareth Holy Acre of First Sheaf Reaped, and Raised from the dead Before the LORD by the Glory of the Father.
     
    #12 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Had Jesus bled his flesh saw corruption in dying in the pains of death. "But God loosed the pains of death ... wherefore He saith ... Thou shalt NOT SUFFER thine Holy One to see corruption." He 'fell on sleep. and was laid unto his fathers [Joseph and David] and saw . . ." NO ". . .corruption. Thus He, Whom God raised again (Jesus Christ) saw no corruption : BE IT KNOWN UNTO YOU THEREFORE THAT THROUGH THIS MAN is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins, and that BY HIM all that believe are justified from all things from which YE COULD NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW OF MOSES" which required BLOOD "for without blood and the shedding of blood there is NO forgiveness of sin".

    It is nothing to jest about; it is THE MATTER of death or life!
     
    #13 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 6, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    It is very hard to take you seriously.
    Matt. 26:28. "For this is My blood of the new covenant which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins." It takes us straight back to Hebrews 9:2 doesn't it? No shedding of blood; no forgiveness. Jesus Christ did t come to destroy the law but to fulfil it.
     
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    I don't think it takes us back to Hebrews 9:2. It takes us back to the Lamb who was slaughtered before the foundation of the world.

    Do you perceive literally, blood, there? Of course not.

    Do you perceive the altar on Calvary, there, "before the foundation of the world"? Of course I should say.

    Why is it difficult to understand that in the old dispensation "the life (was) in the blood"? It is not difficult because in the blood of animals there was no real forgiveness of sins.

    Then why is it difficult to understand that in the New Dispensation the blood was shed in the LIFE of Jesus and not in the loss of any of his flesh? It is not difficult, because there is real forgiveness of sins in Jesus' LIFE and SOUL He laid down and poured out with the POWER of Divinity He possessed.

    If Christ's life were in his blood his sacrifice would have availed only what the sacrifice of animals availed, in reality, nothing. Only through FAITH in the blood of Christ means only through faith in HIM, in his "unblemished", "incorruptible", '"immortality", which He surrendered -- "laid down" because He had POWER to. Jesus' life required not to be taken, but to be "given so that whoever believes in HIM, shall not perish, but receive / have Eternal LIFE -- HIS LIFE.
     
  16. vooks

    vooks
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    Powerful
     
  17. vooks

    vooks
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    Blood REPRESENTS life. Shed/sprinkled blood stands for the penalty (death) for our sins fully paid.
     
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    In the mind of God the Lord Jesus shed His blood for sinners before the foundation of the world. But it happened in real time on the cross at Calvary.

    That our Lord's whole life- His perfect righteousness and obedience to the Father's will as well as His atoning death- is imputed to believers (eg. Rom. 5:19) I do not doubt. But that does not alter the fact that He is the fulfilment of the O.T. sacrifices. His blood was shed once for all and put an end to them.

    Why can you not believe that the Bible means what it says? Faith in His blood (Rom. 3:25) means faith in His blood. You cannot change the plain meaning of the words to suit your own silly theories. To be sure He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again (John 10:18) but that does not alter the fact that His blood was shed for many for the forgiveness of sins (Matt. 26:28),that He has loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood (Rev.1:5) and that with His blood He purchased men for God (Rev. 5:9).
     
  19. vooks

    vooks
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    Gerhard uses hundreds of words to say NOTHING! A hopelessly glib fella.

    Let him walk us through sin offerings. WHY were animals killed?
    And after killing them, why was their blood poured/sprinkled at the altar?
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    Yes, the Bible means what it says ... Faith in His blood (Rom. 3:25) means faith in His blood ---not superstition in any blood. I am no Roman Catholic heathen but a believer in the ONE Sacrifice Jesus Christ made of Himself once for all without animal life, but with his Being--his LIFE-- wherein and wherewith and through which, He shed his BLOOD spiritually discerned THROUGH AND BY AND WITH FAITH ONLY.

    Not blood shed by neither faith nor spirit from the bleeding eyes of mother Marys or crucified Jesus' hands and side. Idolatry! Blasphemy!
     

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