John 3:16

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, May 6, 2006.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    In another thread regarding the Amplified version I said that in John 3:16 the word "so" has been used wrongly . It has been misunderstood .

    As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness -- the Son of Man must be lifted up . And , in this same way , God loved the world by giving His one and only Son in order that those who believe in Him will not perish , but have everlasting life .

    The former was my rendering ( from someone who did not take Greek . So take it with a grain of salt ).

    For verse 16 alone take a look at 3 translations .

    NET -- For this is the way God loved the world : He gave his one and only Son , so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life .

    ISV -- For this is how God loved the world : he gave his unique son so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but have eternal life .

    HCS -- For God loved the world in this way : He gave His one and only Son , so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life .

    There is some debate on this but the Greek adverb outos primarily refers to the manner , not the intensity or degree . See the NET notes for more info .

    I am not suggesting that God the Father did not greatly love those for whom his beloved Son died . But the word "so" in this verse is not speaking to that -- but the way in which He carried out that love .

    (Discussion has already been had on the word begotten meaning unique , or one and only .)
     
  2. BroChris

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    Agreed 100%.

    I don't read anything about a degree of intensity in any of that. I'm far from a greek expert, but I've taken greek classes for about 4 years now (college/seminary), and all of my professors have agreed upon this.
     
  3. genesis12

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    :eek: Wow. I've been reading it wrong for 80 years. For goodness sake! It's a good thing my name was written in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world (indelible ink, ya know).
     
  4. Rev. Lowery

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    Genesis12 God used on of those BIG permanent marks the kind that my kids use on walls the ones that paint thinner want take of no matter how much you rub it, the wall seems to disintegrate and the paint peels off the wall but the marker remains. LOL
     
  5. doulous

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    The intensity of God's love is realized in Christ. How did God love the world? By giving His one and only Son. The giving of the His Son is proof of His love. I don't see where "so" changes that whether it is or isn't in the English text.
     
  6. reformedbeliever

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    You know though, people still take this verse of scripture out of context. What is the context of this whole chapter? That one must be born of the Holy Spirit. The verdict, that the light has come into the world, but men loved darkness rather than the light, just points us right back to "you must be born again". This is not a universalist, or even an argument for mans inititive in salvation. The Spirit goes where He will, upon the direction of God the Father.
     
  7. webdog

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    Correct, but how, unconditionally or by believing? The text dictates it's believing = born again.
    Again, this is correct BUT the act of believing implies the choice of not believing.
     
  8. reformedbeliever

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    None can believe until they have been born again. Of course they do and will believe if they are first born of the Spirit. It is after regeneration (being born of the Spirit) that one can, and must believe.
     
  9. Rippon

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    A big AMEN to that reformedbeliever .
     
  10. genesis12

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    Nope. One is born again, born of the Spirit, when one believes. The Holy Spirit enters in upon the confession of faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, in accordance with John 1:11, John 3:16-17, John 14:6, and Romans 10:8-13. In the midst of my depravity I am made aware by God of my lost, miserable estate, and it is at that point that I answer the knock at the door with "Come on in." I won't discuss it any further. HE has convicted / convinced me. I need that no man do that. And dat's duh name uh dat tun.
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    The evil Spirits believed.
    Satan believed
    Satan angels believed.
     
  12. J.D.

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    How can a man be born again?

    Bible:

    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind (pneuma, spirit) bloweth where it listeth (wills), and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
     
  13. reformedbeliever

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    Genesis12. Read John 1 in context. John spoke of the light that men would not receive. Again in John the third chapter speaks of the verdict that light came into the world but men loved darkness rather than the light... He goes on to say that He came to His own (Jews) and that they didn't receive Him. He then speaks of those who believe in His name...those who received Him... who were born not of blood,(nor the will of the flesh), (nor the will of man) but of God. They were born of the Spirit... not because they believed but born of God so that they believed. Thats God's story and i'm sticking to it.
     
  14. Rippon

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    This post (and thread) has application to another currently being discussed.
     
  15. MB

    MB
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    Whether or not man can do anything is not important. What is important is we are all still clay in God's hand and He can do it. He can convince a man of the truth with out regeneration. There was no regeneration before Christ yet men believed. They believed because they were convinced by God of the truth.
    MB
     
  16. Marcia

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    But the fallen angels cannot be saved, not matter what they believe. And this is not salvific belief - which includes repentance, imo.
     
  17. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Preserve

    God tranlated the Holy Bible translated just the way He wanted it to be and He doesn't need anyone changing it to suit thier doctrine.

    Is God not sovreign?

    You cannot see the Kingdom of God unless you are born again, but you can believe. Become a child, this is what we need to preach for God has hidden the truth from the wise and learned and revealed it to children those who trust God and His word over thier own understanding.

    To just trust is a hard thing for man to do, but it is what God calls us to do. To just believe in a way not like the evil spirit, because faith without deeds is dead.
     
  18. Martin Luther

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    My favorite version for accuracy is Youngs

    John 3:16 (Young's Literal Translation)

    16for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

    I love this verb tense, the correct verb tense puts a much different spin on th verse.
     
  19. EdSutton

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    Well, the passage does talk about or eternal life.

    I guess I should not be greatly surprised to see a thread that was resurrected after appearing to be dead for more than 2 1/2 years.

    Ed
     
  20. webdog

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    ...so the hinge on salvation is not the Gift, but our continued action. I don't think so...
     

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