John 3:18 believers versus unbelievers

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jn. 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Here are some facts that cannot be denied if one is honest with this text:

    1. There are only two types being compared - believers versus unbelievers - NOT ELECT VERSUS NON-ELECT

    2. Jesus is speaking of the PRESENT TENSE condition of both types as the verbs "believeth" and "is" are present tense verbs.

    3. One is either PRESENTLY believing or is PRESENTLY not believing

    4. Those PRESENTLY believing are not PRESENTLY condemned - "IS not condemned"

    5. Those PRESENTLY not believing are PRESENTLY condemned - "IS condemned"

    Even the elect are born into this world in a state of UNBELIEF and thus are "children of disobedience" and while they are in that state of "unbelief" they are "children of wrath even as others" under condemnation as Jesus plainly says that all who are not believing in Christ "IS condemned already" BECAUSE THEY ARE PRESENTLY NOT BELIEVING IN CHRIST.

    This stated cause describes all who enter this world and continue in unbelief UNTIL belief replaces unbelief.

    Now SBM will attempt to PIT scripture against this scripture but cannot HARMONIZE this text with the scriptures he pits against it. However, my position can HARMONIZE his scriptures with this scripture and the truth always HARMONZES all scriptures. The truth is that Christ justified the elect by his blood in that it provided the basis for legal application by the Holy Spirit to the elect "through faith" - Eph. 2:8; Rom. 3:24-26; Romans 5:10 with Romans 5:8-11.
     
  2. Yeshua1

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    those who did NOT have the Son still have the wrath of God abiding upon them , as still in their Sins, and those who have been saved by God have faith in Him!
     
  3. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    the bib

    Thats a lie, for it is elect versus non elect. The Elect are all those Christ died for, His Sheep, and the difference between them is this, While both the Elect and Non Elect are both born in this World in unbelief, the Elect which Christ died for, even while they are in Unbelief or Enemies by Nature Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

    As enemies and unbelievers, they were nevertheless Reconciled to God, Justified by God, How ? By the Death of God's Son !

    Being therefore reconciled to God legally by Christ's Death, they are not under any legal condemnation nor wrath from God for their sins !

    However, the non elect, while they are unbelievers and enemies by Nature, they are both condemned already and the Wrath of God abideth on them, because Christ did not died for them , nor did His Death reconcile them to God, while they are enemies as it did the Elect !
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    i fthey were to die before placing faith in jesus, would they be saved?

    if yes, why even evagelize?
     
  5. billwald

    billwald
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    Yes, God can save (regenerate) anyone.

    I think we evangelize because there are temporal benefits to being a member of a local church.

    Anyway, John 3:18 could be a marginal gloss.
     
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Condemned already !



    Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    For anyone to say that the Elect of God are born in a condemned state of sin, they flat out reject, disregard the biblical Truth of Non Imputation 2 Cor 5:19

    19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Rom 4:8

    8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

    Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay or impute any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    This question by Paul here is to emphasis Non Imputation !

    Now we are no way denying that the Elect are born sinners by nature, the worst kind 1 Cor 6:9-11

    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    Yes totally depraved, Enemies to God in their Minds by wicked works Col 1:21

    21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

    Even children of wrath by nature as others Eph 2:3, yes being quite deserving of God's Eternal Wrath, Now we deem this all True of the Elect by Nature, but we deny as does the scripture, that God charged any of that to their account, He laid not one sin legally to their charge, that they are all born legally reconciled and Justified from all sin, By the Death of Christ for them alone Rom 5:9-10, yes even while they are in a state of nature and unbelief, while on the other hand, there fellow sinners who are non elect, and whom Christ did not die for, are born and will ever remain condemned before God and under His Judicial Wrath Rom 1:18 without hope of Salvation ! That is who Jesus means in Jn 3:18, 36

    None whom Christ died for or came to save were condemned Jn 3:17

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world[of the elect]; but that the world[of the elect] through him might be saved.

    They can be saved by Him because they are not condemned by God for any sin !
     
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Thats something they cannot do, because they are guarded by the Power of Christ unto being called by the Gospel Jude 1:1

    1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

    The word preserved here is the greek word tēreō and means:


    to attend to carefully, take care of

    a) to guard

    b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is

    c) to observe

    d) to reserve: to undergo something


    The Risen Christ who died for them has the Keys of death Rev 1:18

    I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

    Death cannot summons them unless Christ does it, so go figure !
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    So why would the Church preach the Gospel if the elect are already reconciled to God, wouldn't that being just "preaching to the Choir?"
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    I have explained that in previous threads in detail, I am not going to explain it to you again, you should have read my point then, however you can still go back and search my threads if you want to know what I stated. What about the question I just answered ? Can you debate that my response there ? Show me what is not Truth there ! Now deal with that !
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    No faith in jesus, no salvation from God!
     
  11. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Let the reader take note that John 3:18 does not use the word "elect" nor can the word "elect" even be found in the context.

    Second, let the reader also take note that the elect are born UNBELIEVERS and this text is explicitly a contrast between PRESENT TENSE unbelievers and beleivers.

    SBM does not know how to interpret scriptures as he knows nothing about proper hermeneutics but interperts the scriptures any way he likes and in spite of what scriptures actually say or don't say. He simply does not care what God's Word says but makes it say what he wants it to say and this is self-evident in all of his posts - period!
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    So, thats a sad excuse for rejecting the Truth.
     
  13. The Biblicist

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    Truth has to be based upon what the scriptures actu!ally say! John 3:18 actually contrasts PRESENT TENSE believers with unbeleivers not the elect witih non-elect and anyone with two grains of common sense realizes that in the elect fall into BOTH categories at different times. Your false doctrine simply will not fit this text and these words of scripture.
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    There are only Two types of People in this World I know of, The Elect and the None Elect, The Tares and the Wheat, The Sheep and the Goats, So John 3:18 is about the Sheep and the Goats, the Elect and non Elect !
     
  15. The Biblicist

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    Again, you miss the fact that the elect are composed of unbelievers and believers IN PRESENT TENSE in addition to the non-elect. So you have no right to to contrast elect with non elect in this passage as it is referring to PRESENT TENSE believers and unbelievers which BOTH can equally apply to the elect.
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Its pretty simple, The Elect are not condemned because of the Work of Christ on their behalf, and the non elect are condemned because of no work of Christ on their behalf.

    Jn 3:18

    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Believing is an evidence of who is not condemned, unbelief here is an evidence of those in a condemned state because they had not surety !

    The Elect, even as unbelievers are not condemned because they have been reconciled to God by the Death of Christ ! Rom 5:10

    10 For if, when we were enemies or unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    No legal condemnation ever for the Elect !

    Even though the Elect can never come under God's Legal condemnation for sin Rom 8:33

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    But yet for the purpose of Faith in Christ, they do come under conscious condemnation of their sins [that the guilt of legally was placed on Christ] their Surety did bear 1 Jn 3:20

    20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

    It is through this conscious condemnation that God oft times leads us into Faith in the Atoning Work of Christ that He bore our condemnation for us, thus we receive the atonement Rom 5:11 or an application by the Spirit of the remission or forgiveness of sins by His Blood. The Holy Spirit applies the Blood to one consciously, which is called the sprinkling of the Blood 1 Pet 1:2

    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling[application] of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    This was the stated purpose of the law, that we might be Justified by Faith Gal 3:23-24

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    That world that Christ died for, the Elect World, that World, everyone of it shall be by an inner work of the Holy Spirit convinced of their sinnership, their lawbreaking and sin, and then thus convinced, they shall be led into Faith in Him that bore their legal condemnation for their lawbreaking and sin, and by this Christ is Glorified by the Spirit Jn 16:6-15 and Vs 8-11 are the primary effects of the New Birth by the Spirit ! Those whom Christ died for, will each of them be taught their spiritual need for Christ to be led to Faith in Him Jn 6:45

    45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
     
  18. The Biblicist

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    The doctrine of the pharisees. They too believed they did not need to repent because they did not beleive they were condemned.

    Readers, if the elect were NEVER EVER condemned then they NEVER EVER need to be saved as salvation is from condemnation.

    Readers, if the elect were NEVER EVER condemned then they NEVER EVER need a Savior because only condemned people need salvation.

    Readers, if the elect were NEVER EVER condemned then they NEVER EVER need a substitute to be CONDEMNED for them in their place.

    Readers, if the elect were NEVER EVER condemned then it is impossible, and illegal for them to die, to suffer death, as death IS CONDEMNATION due to sin.

    Readers, if the elect were NEVER EVER condemned then they were NEVER EVER in unbelief because to be in unbelief is condemnation - Jn. 3:18.
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    the bib

    Way to evade the points of the post !
     
  20. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The point is you have no points but imaginative ones!
     

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