John 6:29-36 - THE REQUEST

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.


    Jesus explicitly claims that He is the true bread that came down from heaven to give life to world (vv. 32-33). His audiance immediately requested to be given that bread (v. 34).

    Roman Catholics deny that Christ could or did provide what his audiance requested of Him in John 6:34. They claim that he could not honor that request until after the cross (v. 51) because it required partaking of the Lord's Supper after the cross (not before the cross - Mt. 26:12-30).

    Baptists believe that eating and drinking of him is spelled out in the context to be analogous to partaking of him by faith (vv. 35, 46-48; 60-68). This is made quite clear by the fact that Jesus clearly states that eternal life is equally obtained by believing in him as it is by eating him, and such statements are placed side by side in this context. In addition Christ explicitly denies that his "words" should be understood in a MATERIAL sense but in a NON-MATERIAL sense "are spirit". In addition Peter understood his words in a NON-MATERIAL sense by claiming not only that it was his "WORD" that conveyed life to those who beleived them but that Peter had already partaken of them -

    Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

    However, what was Christ's immediate response to his audiance request to give them right now this bread of life:

    Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

    The word "give" is PRESENT TENSE so it is a present tense requrest! Here is how Christ responded:

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
    36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.


    1. He reaffirmed he IS the bread of life - "I AM the bread of life"

    2. He confirmed that as the bread of life that they could PRESENTLY come to him and their hunger would be PRESENTLY satisfied and their thirst satisfied

    3. He defined partaking of him in a way that satisfied both hunger and thirst to mean coming to him by faith rather than coming to the Lord's Supper AFTER the cross.


    Again in verses 48-51 he says:


    47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
    48 I am that bread of life.
    49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
    50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
    51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.



    1. He affirms that eternal life is obtained PRESENTLY by believing on him to be the "bread of life"

    2. He affirmed that "any man" could PRESENTLY "eat" and live forever.

    The issue is about the final words of verse 51 and the future tense "will give." All sides agree he is referring to the cross. However, He has already established that merely beleiiving in him obtains eternal life. He affirmed that in John 3:16 and John 5:24 as a PRESENT REALITY. However, this present obtaining of eternal life is based upon providing the satisfaction upon the cross as without the cross no eternal life is possible.

    Here is the issue. Rome's interpretation equally denies present tense eternal life by faith BEFORE the cross as it does partaking of him in the Lord's Supper BEFORE the cross as the basis for eternal life is HIM AS THE BREAD OF LIFE. Therefore, Rome's interpetation would have to also deny that faith in Christ BEFORE the cross could not obtain eternal life either and thus Christ words in John 3:16, 5:24 and everywhere else prior to the cross could not be understood PRESENTLY but only in the future.
    "


    However, it is clear that Jesus repudiated Rome's interpretation that his words were to be understood in a MATERIAL SENSE in regard to obtaining eternal life.


    63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
    68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
    69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.


    Peter believed that His words were the words "of life" and PARTOOK OF THEM by faith.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,081
    Likes Received:
    204
    QUESTIONS FOR ROMAN CATHOLICS

    1. Does "bread of life" equal Christ? "I AM the bread of life"

    2. Does believing in Christ as the bread of life presently obtain "eternal life"? - Jn. 3:16; 5:24

    47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
    48 I am that bread of life
    .



    3. Can one eat of him as the bread of life prior to Calvary and have eternal life? - Jn. 6:48-49

    47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
    48 I am that bread of life
    .

    4. If John 6:51 and the future tense "shall give" deny that eternal life can be obtained by eating him prior to the cross, does it also deny believing in him as the bread of life is also impossible to obtain eternal life until after the cross?

    a. If that is so, then how could he consistently use the present tense for believing and possessing eternal life before Calvary - Jn. 3;16; 3:36; 5:24; 6:47?

    b. If that is so, then how could Jesus claim his disciples names were already written in the book of Life before Calvary and they could PRESENTLY rejoice in that?
     
    #2 The Biblicist, Jun 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013

Share This Page

Loading...