John 6:36-44

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Jn. 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
    40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
    42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
    43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
    44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day...........
    54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    .


    My friends,

    Have you ever considered the repeated phrase "I will raise him up at the last day" that is begun in verse 39 and repeated three more times, the last being in verse 54?

    Well, we know every human being will be raised up at the last day not just some and therefore this phrase cannot possibly be understood that way as there is no meaningful application involved.

    In each case this repeated promise is in regard to either eternal life or not perishing and so must be a promise to be raised unto the resurrection OF LIFE.

    I think the principle of first mention establishes this as the meaning.

    39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
     
  2. Nazaroo

    Nazaroo
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    I would agree that there must be something more than mere 'resurrection' at stake.

    These words are meant as a comfort to Christians, as well as a warning to unbelievers.

    The resurrection unto Eternal Life is a special resurrection,
    transcending and surpassing ordinary resurrection or reviving.
    Many who are resurrected in the Last Day
    will still remain without any means to stay alive eternally,
    and can be assumed to have been resurrected as mortals,
    for a second chance.

    Another side-teaching here is that men can SEE and believe,
    implying also that those who did not have any opportunity to SEE Christ,
    will get a chance to SEE Him in this final resurrection in the Last Day.
    At that time, then, we can postulate three groups:

    (1) believers

    (2) unknowing agnostics

    (3) the unbelievers who rejected Christ and died in their sins.

    Jesus (in the gospel of John) speaks occasionally of each of the three groups.
     
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    In context Jesus is contrasting "ALL" who are given to the Father in verse 37 who do come to Christ in faith with those in verse 36 who did see and did not believe/come to Christ.

    Are you saying that the second category you list above is part of that "all" in verses 37, 39 or "everyone" in verse 40?

    Are you suggesting that at the last day there will be a second chance for some? If so, what do you do with heb. 9:27?
     
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


    A common but wrong response to verses 38-39 in regard to the Father's will is that this is merely the revealed will of God that can be thwarted by man. However, this is not true of these verses. It is not man here that is committed to doing the will of the Father but it is Christ.

    Verse 37 declares the intent of Christ in coming to earth. He is not describing something POTENTIAL but something he would effectually perform by his own Person. Indeed, if He came short of performing the Father's will for which he came to do it would be sin on his part.

    Verse 38 explicitly defines that aspect of God's will that Christ declares he will perform. Neither verse refers to something only POTENTIAL or something depending upon the willingness of mankind to do or not do but rather this is something that depends upon Christ's power and willingness to perform or do. He says he will not lose a single solitary one of "all" those given to him by His Father as it is the will of the Father that none of "all" given to Christ perish.

    Those who attempt to interpret this text as only the REVEALED will of God that depends upon mankind's willingness and thus make this only a POTENTIAL rather than effectual accomplishment are distorting this text. It is not mankind's ability but Christ's own ability that accomplishes this. It is not mankind's potential willingness but Christ's willingness that accomplishes this.

    QUESTIONS:

    1. Who is it in verse 37 that came to do the Father's will? The believer or Christ?
    2. What is the Father's will in specific that Christ came to do in verse 38?
    3. Does either verse 37-38 include anyone else but the Son in regard to accomplishing this explictly defined will of the Father?
    4. Hence who is the subject and actor in performing verse 38?
    5. When verse 38 says "this is the Father's will" is not this then specifically defined in the same text with the words "that all that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[/COLOR]
     
    #4 The Biblicist, Nov 16, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2011
  5. billwald

    billwald
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    Was the primary purpose of God/Jesus to fill Heaven or to fill Hell? Something else? Is God/Jesus fulfilling his primary purpose? What is it?
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Why ignore the contextual data? Is it because you do not agree with it and cannot deal with it so you change the subject? Just asking, not accusing?

    What bearing do your questions have to do with Bibical exposition of these verses in their context dealing with the subject of this context?

    Do you think hell will be empty? If not, then what is your point?
     

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