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Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by KenH, Nov 8, 2007.
Wow, is right.
" Likely to generate lively discussions " indeed ! Hagee hamstrung himself with this one .
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son" 1 John 2:22
I'm surprised no one mentioned his reasoning, that Christ came the first time to suffer and die, and would return as King and Lord the second time, for which we are still waiting. By Messiah, Hagee seems to be referring to the Jewish idea of Messiah, the conquering Defender and Justifier that Israel is looking for, not the submissive Servant we Christians have come to believe. Christ did not come to rule and reign on his first trip, apparently, so he was not, to Jewish eyes, the Messiah. Is Christ the Messiah? You betcha. Did he come to be the Messiah the first time? Yes, he came to seek and save that which was lost and to fulfill Scripture. But he won't be the Messiah the Jews expected until his next appearance. Savior of mankind? Yes. Messiah of the Jews? Soon.
Hagee pushes his wording too far, certainly. But he is not, I believe, claiming Christ is not the Messiah the way most seem to interpret his words.
While I am not an authority on Hagee's teaching, I have watched his program many times, turning the channel when he starts screaming. I base these comments on what I have seen of his theology over the years. If someone has more evidence that he is "denying Christ" or further clarification of his words, please share it.
Maybe he means Jesus was not the Messiah the Jews of that day were expecting. I have heard lots of his sermons (once in person), and have never heard a negative reference to Jesus or His Diety.
Jews are a part of mankind.
Hagee has this one wrong. Jesus clearly claimed to be the Messiah when He was asked:
"Again the high priest was questioning Him, and saying to Him, Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? And Jesus said, I Am; and you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven" -Mk 14:61-62
The term "Christ" means "Messiah" (Dan 7:13-14).
Jesus is the Christ!
Ok, here are some things I found absolutely (biblically) wrong!
1. At approx. 19 seconds - He states that Jesus DID NOT come to earth TO BE THE Messiah .
Uh, if He did not come to be the Messiah then what did He come to be??
Or even more pointedly why did others see Him AS THE Messiah as in John 1:41 'we have found the Messiah', and other such verses. How could they have confused Him for the Messiah as Jews if He did not assert such as He did with the Woman at the well?
Online Bible Dictionary:
2. Next at approx. 31 seconds - He states "..since Jesus REFUSED by word and deed TO BE the MESSIAH.." -
This is a COMPLETE distorition of scripture. Jesus claimed many times to be the Messiah (The Annointed One) and just for a quick reference go back again (as stated earlier) to the woman at the well:
I can go to others but this is as specific as you can get using the very word 'Messiah' or the Greek form 'Messias'. As stated previously Christ is the Greek equivalent of Messaih which leaves no shortage of verses either.
Jesus did not REFUSE to be the Messiah for that was exactly who He was and came to be. He can no more deny who He is and what He was regarding the Messiah than He can about His deity.
3. Continuing in that vien at approx. 36 seconds - He states (continuing from Jesus Refusing by word and deed to be the Messiah) "..how can Isreal be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?" Did this guy ever READ the Gospels? How about the parable in Mat 21:23 but more specifically of Mat 21:42 which is about the stone which the builders rejected and God took it and made it the Corner Stone. And the Kingdom of God is taken from them (Israel) and the Pharasees percieved that Jesus was speaking of them. So I guess they DID know what He meant huh.?
Or Mark 8:31, 32:
What were they rejecting exactly if not that He is the Messiah? Even Nick (in John 3) admitted THEY (his group) KNEW He was a man of God thus He could be a good teacher or good prophet and if that was all it would have been fine but there was a great deal more to both Him and His message and is the reason Nick came to see Him. The Jews (as a Nation) rejected His message and that He was THEIR Christ or Messiah. If He was not the Messiah then who's Kindom was He proclaiming and INVITING or OFFERING TO THE JEWS to be apart of?? That Kingdom of the Messiah, HIS KINGDOM.
Man I can go on and on here but I'll stop.
4. His purpose for writting this book is to "Shape Christian Theology". Shape it into what? So far as I have seen here it is more apt to mishape and deform those who do not study the scripture for themselves.
I'm sure Hagee means well, but his choice of wording is of course completely wrong. Jesus was the promised Messiah, and His offer of the Kingdom was valid until Stevens stoning.
Those that are perceived as leaders in the Christian community will always be held under the microscope, and far too many of them don't think things out properly before engaging their mouths.
What was John the Baptists ministry all about when he said "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"? Wasnt he saying this to the Jews?
John Hagee has taken Dispensationalism to its logical conclusion.
Indeed he was.
As well they should be, the Bible being the microscope of course.
33Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Something to think about, hmm?
For Hagee, I think his zeal for Israel has cast a stupor over him. He clearly says that Jesus didn't come to earth to be the Messiah and never was offered to the Jews as the Messiah.
Um... yeah... thanks Mr. Hagee for providing the title of another book I don't intend to read.
That may be true from a "human logic" standpoint . It amazes me how folks cast stones on "true" Bible doctrines, simply because others misue or abuse them.
As far as Hagee goes I guess one part of me is very surpised by this, but on the other hand as another poster has pointed out his devotion to unrepentant Israel has blinded him to Biblical Truth.
How can he deny these passages?
9Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
The one above told Jerusalem what to look for.
What does Hagee think was Jesus' motivation for this,
6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
That's absurd. The rapture is the logical conclusion to dispensationalism.