John Mac Aurthur on "Purpose Driven Life"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Revmitchell, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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  2. gb93433

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    I know many who have graduated from MacArthur's school and never give any kind of invitation or ever an opportunity for people to receive Christ.

    I preached for a pastor who graduated from MacArthur's school who never gave any kind of invitation ever in the church he pastored. The Sunday that I preached I asked for permission to give an invitation. Seven people had come forward. Out of those most wanted prayer because they were going through some very tough times. A few wanted to know more about becoming a Christian. In the congregation that day was also a lady who was not a Christian and was impressed that someone would care enough to pray for people and genuinely care for them. In that same church I heard a preacher who was a professor at the MacArthur's school and the guy was so passionless.

    While I do agree that the book appears weak. I have heard Warren preach twice and I would say that few in America would demand as much as he does from those who come to Christ. He expects more of a member than probably 99.9% of the Baptist churches do of their deacons.
     
  3. Amy.G

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    From what I've heard from Rick Warren, including his book, his gospel is about as watered down as it can get.

    I was listening to Moody radio the other day and there was an interview with R.W. in which he stated that Jesus came to "communicate with us".

    Huh? I thought Jesus came to pay the penalty for our sins. Silly me.
     
  4. gb93433

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    While I would not write a book like that I would tend to be quite the opposite. People tend to get mad at me because I challenge them to get out of their chair and get to work in their communities. The last time I talked with a denominational leader and asked him about what he was doing to make disciples he looked embarassed and walked away as fast as he could. Some years earlier I talked with the president of a mission board and he had great advice and things he was doing. What a difference!!

    Those who I know who graduated from MacArthur's schools are very weak when it comes to being presented with arguments outside of what MacArthur teaches and wants taught. I have talked with a number of them and not one of them are very good at dealing with anything other than what they have been taught. Not one of the pastors I know who got their master's from there knew what a Mishnah was until I told him. When we talked about quite a number of doctrinal issues they were so poorly prepared for arguments other than what he was told at the school. One of them told me that they are only taught what he wants them to hear. They do not even know about othewr opposing views of where he stands.
     
  5. preachinjesus

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    I like John MacArthur, really do. His ministry has reached many and he is a world class theological mind.

    I must wonder though, it seems that many of his points seem to be made at the expense of others. Seems to go after particular ministries that he doesn't necessarily agree with with the veracity of a pitbull.

    Pastor Rick Warren is doing amazing things for the Kingdom of God. Thankfully he doesn't get sidelined by the people who try to hold him back from reaching people with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, particularly the Christians. :)
     
  6. Amy.G

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    I'm not defending MacArthur's school or even MacArthur himself. I'm just commenting on RW's book and his approach to evangelism. I think it's weak and seeker sensitive. IMO.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Off topic :type:
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    Here is a paragraph from the by-laws of Grace Community Church, pastored by John MacArthur:

    Sounds like an invitation to me.

    From A Warning and an Invitation, 2007, Grace to You Broadcast:
    Finally, we see proof that God’s love extends to all in the gospel offer. We saw earlier that the gospel invitation is an offer of divine mercy. Now consider the unlimited breadth of the offer. No one is excluded from the gospel invitation. Salvation in Christ is freely and indiscriminately offered to all.

    Grace Community Church is a mega-church. Wonder how it got that way without invitations at the end of each service?


     
  9. gb93433

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    What we read in the public about what Warren writes is not the same thing that goes on inside of the doors. There is a lot of training and ministry going on as well as theological training. I have met Rick Warren and had some discussion with him. I found him to be a very warm Christian who genuinely cares for others in a way that I think most would find very challenging. I am not him and he is not me. I reach very different people than him and no doubt he reaches very different people than me but we are all a part of the body. While it is easy to criticize the ministry of another it is difficult to reach people and make disciples.

    I met John MacArthur when he was in his thirties and I am glad that he has humbled himself. At the time I met him I had my doubts that he would make it if he did not humble himeself. I felt he was arrogant and I was not the only one who felt that same way.

    However I do not agree with MacArthur at all in his statement that a single book will lead to apostacy. I believe that the neglect of the new Christians by not personally discipling them is the very thing that will allow the church to die. It is direct disobedience by not making disciples.

    Tonight I had a dialog with a friend of mine and asked him what he thought would happen if there were not any pastor of any churches. He laughed and said that he felt peope would step up to the plate and assume personal responsibility.
     
  10. Bob Alkire

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    I'm not big on John MacArthur, but I have to say God has used him greatly. Many things I agree with him on and many this I disagree with him on. As a friend of my said, I wounder if he left more than some skin in Utah, Al. coming home from Bob Jones, he said that after going to Orlando to hear him. Still like him but had much he disagreed with him on.

    Lets be fair, it isn't just John on this, but many pastors and churches. If your doctrine isn't just like mine or your interpretation, I have to tell the lost world how wrong you are and try and get folks out of serving God in that church over to where I'm at. I recall where we taught the doctrine and interpretation we held to within our church doors and schools but could get along with other Christians. Most were trying to serve the Lord with the light they had been given and say you might be correct but up till this time I don't agree with you, I'll pray for you and would like you to do the same for me.

    As long as we show true Christian love, folks will learn! Teaching and or discipline is true Christian love. We do not neglect people we love or we shouldn't!!!
    We all need to spend more time in study of the Scriptures and prayer to be able to be better used by God. I can't teach what I don't know. I've been around Christian with very little education but were much better at discipline that many with a good education because they spent much time in study and prayer shall we say they put on the armor of God. I'm so grateful of the ones with a great education who do use it to the glory of God also.
     
  11. donnA

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    You do know this book is written for christians, not unbelievers. Your descrition of the lack of,,, is more for unbelievers your trying to 'win' to Christ. Christians have already accepted this, acknowledged this, they are christians, they have been saved. Purpose Driven Life is about whats next, now that a person is a christians, whats next, what are they to do in their life thats lives scripturally and honors God. Your list would be aimed at keeping the saved as babies.
     
  12. Amy.G

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    Are you saying that the "invitation" to believe in Christ that he writes in this book is an invitation to Christians?
     
  13. gb93433

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    Spending time just studying the Bible and praying is just like studying all about raising a family then once the baby is born then telling the baby to take care of itself. It is not biblical to delegate the responsibility to others or to God. Read Acts 20 to see who made the elders the overseers.

    A friend of mine has a saying, "How much faster can we send them to hell." The point being that we can pray and do all kinds of things without loving them enough to give them the gospel. We can love people so much that we stifle their growth by giving them everything but what they really need. That is not godly love.
     
  14. Bob Alkire

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    I didn't say just. I couldn't give directions to Tyty, Ga. until I knew where Tyty was, I couldn't give the best route till I looked to see where we were. If one spends time in study of the Scriptures and in prayer, they want to do what the Scriptures teach. The more time I spend in His Word the more I want to do as I am taught.

    If one loves folks they should be sure to give them the Gospel and then teach them.
     
  15. Navymans

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    Maybe we should not worry about what man writies in his books but put our minds and hearts on what God put in his book. I find if we are putting our time in Gods book then we dont have time to read or care what others are writing. I would rather talk about the things of the Bible than what Rick Warren or anyone else is doing in their service. If you have time to be listening or reading others stuff and picking it apart after you do then you dont have your heart and mind on the things of God, put that time into study or witness to someone lost.
     
  16. gb93433

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    Take a look at http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm

    People can read the Bible and completely miss how Jesus trained His disciples. The majority of Bible schools and seminaries completely miss it.
     
  17. Bob Alkire

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    Both Theodore Epp and Dawson Trotman I know of from when I was a young man in the 50's. Theodore Epp and his plain teaching helped me along the way, much.
     
  18. Martin

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    ==The Bible does not given invitations to "recieve Christ". The Bible commands all people to repent and turn to Christ in faith (Acts 17:30-31). Altar calls are somewhat "new" in the history of the church. They certainly cannot be traced back to Scripture.

    I am not opposed to altar calls, the church I am a member of and serve in practices altar calls every service. There is nothing wrong with them at all. However I get concerned when I read/hear someone say that a preacher was "passionless" because they did not preach in a certain way or open things up for an altar call.

    ==As Christians we don't need someone to pray for us. The Bible says that if we are suffering we should pray (Jms 5:13). That means we can pray alone, with a fellow Christian, or with a pastor. We certainly can ask for prayer for our pastor (etc). However the idea that people need the pastor to pray for them in some unique way is a violation of the Scriptural principle of the priesthood of all believers. The Bible is clear that "the effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much" (Jms 5:16).

    Again, I don't oppose altar calls nor do I oppose people walking the isle asking the pastor to pray for them. Nothing wrong with that at all. However the idea that a pastor is "passionless" or is somehow not doing what should be done job because he does not practice altar calls is going too far.
     
  19. gb93433

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    Do you ever wonder how they knew how many received Christ in the book of Acts if they did not count.

    How many times Jesus say, "Follow Me"?



    Try reading James 5:14, 15, "Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him."
    The second half of verse 14 is an imperative. Verse 16 begins with an imperative to pray for one another.

    Passionless is without passion. I have met men who were rather quiet and full of passion. I have also heard shout, stomp, and spit and walked away with theatrics.

    Passion is far different than just style.
     
  20. Martin

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    ==Neither of those are examples of altar calls. Jesus' use of the phrase "follow Me" was about becoming a Christian, not walking an aisle. Also they did not need altar calls to know how many people turned to Christ in faith. So I am not sure either of your examples are good arguments for altar calls.


    ==Again, I am not sure how that is a good apologetic for altar calls. If you notice James 5:14 states that a sick person must "call for the elders of the church". It says nothing about walking down an aisle. With verse 16 I make the same point. It is about Christians praying for each other, not about altar calls. Again the Scriptures are clear that if we are suffering we should pray (Jms 5:13). That means we can pray alone, with a fellow Christians, or with a pastor. The idea that people need the pastor to pray for them in some unique way is a violation of the Scriptural principle of the priesthood of all believers. The Bible is clear that "the effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much" (Jms 5:16). Any Christian can pray for another Christian.


    ==Then I am not sure how you can judge someone's passion. Maybe their style is more academic or more technical, but that does not mean they lack passion.
     

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