John Owens on 1 Cor 6:9-10

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by kyredneck, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Evidently this is his take:

    "All that die have not the plague, and all that
    perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are
    excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
    idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10."

    This is what Paul actually wrote:

    9 have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,
    10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. 1 Cor 6 YLT

    Note there's no clear mention of 'perishing eternally'. I maintain that a mere few sentences earlier Paul has given us an example of a bona fide Saint being "excluded from the kingdom of God":

    5 to deliver up such a one to the Adversary for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 1 Cor 5 YLT

    Note there's clear indication that this man was NOT to "perish eternally".
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    So Kyred
    Is it your position that sinners living in the Kingdom of darkness do not go into the second death for their sins?
    Is it your position that small sins do not condemn?
    Is it your position that mortification of sin is not both a grace and a duty?
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    It is my position and has always been my position that 'the majority', 'the most', 'the many', 'hoi polloi', are frivolous with their insertions of 'perishing eternally' into passages where it is NOT the intent as concerns the redeemed.

    We've been through this before. God judges His people in this time realm, never eternally.
     
  4. JonShaff

    JonShaff
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    So let's give a summary of the few thoughts that are jumping around...

    There are such things as "carnal Christians" (As the man who slept with his dad's wife is evident of this?)....?
     
    #4 JonShaff, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    "...that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus...."

    Yes, absolutely. I'm convinced heaven will be filled with 'carnal Christians'. To use an oxymoron, I believe the first two weeks of heaven will be full of shockers, "You're here"?

     
  6. JonShaff

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    LOL! That made me laugh!!!

    And i'm sure people will say the same about me.
     
  7. Iconoclast

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    As the day progresses I will take the other position that there are no carnal Christians and it will be no carnal Christians in heaven
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    there are no reform people that believe that redeemed people are lost. I think your statement needs a little further clarification and I think we'll get out into some good interaction. We can unravel some of it if you could post your link remember you had a link on that you know time salvation or whatever you called it if you could post that again it might help to refresh my mind on that
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
  9. JonShaff

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    Speech to text is killing it ;)
     
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  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Yeah the load is very heavy so when it bounces and makes noise and it distorts the words.
    I will try to screen it better when I before I post it
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
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  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Yes! 'Time salvation'. The man in 1 Cor 5:5 had lost all the bennies that comes with 'the kingdom' yet retained his 'eternal salvation'. One salvation with two aspects, the temporal and the eternal.

    12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; And uphold me with a willing spirit. Ps 51

    10 Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto him for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye grieved; for the joy of Jehovah is your strength. Neh 8

    17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Ro 14

    For His children to live at odds to His will is a joyless existence to say the least.
     
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  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Thank you for this helpful clarification
    It focuses what the discussion we'll be on from this point forward
     
  13. JonShaff

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    It's def. not a option, Correct. But let us not glance over the fact that God chastens us (previous several verses) because our behavior, regardless to what degree, can still be sinful. Let us lay aside *every* weight and sin (not just unbelief) that easily besets us.

    11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness....
     
    #13 JonShaff, Dec 18, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2015
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  14. JonShaff

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    humble.jpg

    Had to transfer this too... lol
     
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  15. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    YLT stand for 'Yoda Linguistic Translation," does it? Laugh
     
  16. Rob_BW

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    Let me fix that up for you:

    For 'yoda linguistic translation' YLT stands, does it, hmm? Yeesssssss.

    AlienBiggrin
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    "kyredneck,

    What was planned in eternity unfolds in TIME.
    A person whom God has elected to save from eternity past is sure to be saved .Jesus dies for them and seeks and saves them.
    they are certain of heaven from the Divine side.
    That being said.....they go from death to life in time.
    If you are speaking of remaining sin and our duty towards it that is one thing.
    We are not told who is going to be saved so from our POV it is an ongoing process.


    If indeed this man became saved...it was not when he was living in incestial fornication.
    A christian in sin loses confidence and assurance that he is God's child.
    A professed christian who practices sin has no right to believe he is a christian. He needs to examine himself as to if he is in the faith.


    Agreed.
     
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  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate
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    Yep! That's exactly right.
     
  19. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Who do you think you are to make such a call and twist the scripture to fit your doctrine? You've gone off 'the deep end' fretting about other's sin Icon. Talk about doing violence to the word of God to prop up your disparaging counterproductive doctrine of LS, this takes the cake.

    There's no need for me to carry on with this dialog, Not in the mode and I've other things to do than waste time with another Winman.

    I said all I wanted in the OP.
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    What i said is biblically based. sorry you cannot see that.
    I am not fretting about anything, but i do believe we are our brothers keeper. It is a means of grace that you evidently would deny.
    Your strange ideas are not found outside your small group . The fact that you cannot offer a defense of it is proof of that.
    You have established nothing...now you want to take your bat and ball and go home...fine.

    As long as Acts 2 :36 is in the bible i do not feel any need to apologize that Jesus rules as Lord over every aspect of a believers life.
    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    You picked the fight when you picked on the Owen quote in my signature, and you offered to be critical of him without reading his work...that makes a lot of sense. The biblical grace and duty to mortify sin is quite biblical as salvation from beginning to end happens in time and in eternity....so does reprobation which is the flip side of the coin.
    If you think that is a waste of time, then why not look for a coffee clotch fellowship.
     

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