John Piper

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, May 13, 2013.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    I am really behind in my book reading and Bible reading. Went through my books and got out about 10 that I have not finished and I noticed Desiring God and God is the gospel by John Piper. Referring to God is the Gospel has anyone read it? I am a evangelist and so evangelism type books interest me more. This appears to be a evangelism theology type book and a book I got for FREE and I have not even started. Tell me about it and your thoughts.
     
  2. Darrell C

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    Have you read "The Gospel According to Jesus" by John MacArthur?

    A favorite of mine, though I confess I do not read a great deal of extrabiblical literature. Just my belief that the Lord can better shape your ministry by speaking directly to you through His word. But there can be books which can be helpful.

    Sorry I can't offer an opinion on the books presented.

    God bless.
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    Not much of an evangelist because he does not believe Christ died for everybody. Then he presents a false dichotomy, if Christ died for everyone, then He saves no one. The truth is Christ became the propitiation, or means of salvation for all mankind, but only those who receive the reconciliation are saved through His death.

    Then Piper teaches than non-Calvinists believe we accomplish our own new birth, but the truth is we believe God causes us to be born again, 1 Peter 1:3 through the resurrection of Christ from the dead. So he either does not know his bible, or is willing to misrepresent others.

    Finally, he claims non-Calvinists believe in faith before regeneration. Well even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while. No one comes to faith without the grace of God influencing them, for the gospel is the power of God unto salvation. But Matthew 13 teaches folks can receive the gospel with joy, but then fall away, demonstrating the grace providing the opportunity for salvation is not irresistible.

    Bottom line, seek truth and wisdom concerning evangelism, from the well of living water, He is the truth, the way and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Him.
     
    #3 Van, May 13, 2013
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  4. Greektim

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    Avoiding Van's critique since it is not helpful discussion...

    God is the Gospel is good for helping Christians better understand what the gospel is all about--God. So it will help you hone your presentation of the gospel... however you will be presenting a very unattractive gospel, one that will require the Holy Spirit to awaken the dead to respond by faith to want Jesus more than anything else (including heaven or the other benefits of salvation).

    Desiring God is just stinking good. I read it once every year to keep in mind the importance of God's supremacy and my enjoyment of him.
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    Hi Greektim, it is certainly helpful to point out that the doctrines of grace (Total Spiritual Inability and Irresistible Grace) do adorn the gospel with fictions making it "unattractive." Why pointing to the doctrine of Limited atonement as unhelpful escapes me. Perhaps we are dealing with malice toward one.

    The last doctrine of grace that actually hinders evangelism is "Unconditional Election." Many believers that present the gospel do so my sitting down and taking a person through the Romans Road, or with the "Bridge Diagram" having the person turn to the various scriptures teaching we all sin and need a Savior, and God has provided the Savior, but requires that we wholeheartedly trust in Him. God chooses people for salvation through faith in the truth, a needed conditional for election, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. You will search in vain to find any passage that teaches God chooses individuals for salvation unconditionally, the doctrine of John Piper's persuasion.

    Bottom line, if we love God we will stick with His commands such as living by His word, not shredding it for the sake of the traditions of men.
     
    #5 Van, May 13, 2013
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  6. jonathanD

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    I guess Adoniram Judson and William Carey weren't evangelists either.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    Guess only people who hold to "free will" qualify to preach and teach on the risen jesus, so Spurgeon, owens, Edwards, calvin, luther, Whitefield etc were not seeking to evangelise the lost!
     
  8. Greektim

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    I was referring mostly to your unhelpfulness in regards to the OP. This is not a discussion about Calvinism, no matter how much you want it to be.
     
  9. Oldtimer

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    Put God's word first.

    Pick up your Bible and take the Gospel to the lost.

    If you don't mind my asking, how many hours per week do you spend in "open air" preaching?

    Since from what I understand, you are not in a paid ministry position. Therefore, spend the time needed to earn a living, sleep, eat & etc. Add, to that time spent in church.

    AFTER all of that, pick up those 10 books and read opinions of others.

    FWIW, I truly do understand the desire to read. On either side of where I'm sitting now, there are stacks of books waiting to be read. For ex: Modern Criticism and the Preaching of the Old Testament c 1901, A Survey of the Old Testament, Transformational Discipleship, Baptists and the Bible, The Quotable Oswald Chamers, & more.

    The only one that doesn't need a "Swifter Duster" is the Bible.
     
  10. evangelist6589

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    True but such a mindset would flunk you out of Seminary. People that say "I do not read books as I only read the Bible" are actually saying "I do not want authority. Existentialism is enough for me and my opinion is better than gifted teaches whom the Lord has equipped to teach."
     
  11. evangelist6589

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    Thanks for this. I deny Limited Atonement and have many verses to refute it. True teachers must be tested by the Bible.
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    The Holy Spirit is the one that brings the converts no question. However I do not believe that Christ only died for the elect. Thanks for the tip. I am gonna read it soon. Got 10 books to start reading.
     
  13. evangelist6589

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    Does Piper make a big deal of Limited Atonement in the book? If so I may skip it till later.
     
  14. evangelist6589

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    Yes put Gods word first but God has given us teachers for the equipping of the saints (Eph). Ephesians seems to be a book you need to read, for your negative view on books.

    These days I open air once a month, but there was a time when I did it every week as I was living closer to downtown. But I have to disagree with your view on evangelism. One needs to preach the word to the lost and street evangelism is the way to go. Do it with a church or do it on your own. My church does not do street evangelism but believes only in "results type evangelism in visitation" and I believe God brings the converts and its not about getting people to join my church, but about preaching repentance in true obedience (Mk 16). My church would never do street evangelism, because they are only interested in people joining their church. One on the streets can come to Christ and go to a Calvary Chapel and my church would consider them a failure but I would consider it a blessing as they got saved!!!!
     
  15. Oldtimer

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    First and foremost, I do not have a negative view on books. Quite the contrary. My home and workshop are actually filled to overflowing with books. Our bedroom is a library with barely enough room to get to the bed. In one corner there is a stack of books that reaches the ceiling because I don't have room for another bookcase. Most of those books have been read, at least once, and many have been read multiple times. To make it quite clear, I've been collecting books, on subjects of interest for more than 50 years. When interests in certain subjects has waned, I've given the applicable books away. Over the years, probably have given away as many as I still have stuffed everywhere.

    It is because of my lifelong interest in books, that I give you the advise that I do regarding them. I've done exactly what you are doing now. Much to my regret in some cases. There comes a time to stop reading MORE books and go to work. Outside there is a shop full of woodworking machinery along with I don't know how many books on that subject. With every machine out there, there comes a time to put down the books and flip the switch on the piece of equipement. To actually make some sawdust instead of just reading more and about making sawdust. There comes a time, when electing to read more books is counterproductive. Instead of making sawdust, reading more books was just an excuse not to roll up my sleeves and do the work the machine was designed to help accomplish. I don't need to read book after book on routers, while the router, itself is idle and collecting dust.

    Nor do I need to read another book on removing rust using electrolysis. The system is setup. The system works. When I'm sitting and ah read'n NOTHING is being accomplished. I'm putting more interest in what others say about rust removal than actually putting in the effort to restore those cruddy skillets to a useful life.

    I see that in myself, when it happens. I see that in you, according to your posts, as well. It is something that neither of us should be proud of saying and doing.

    What is stopping you from going to a park, a street corner, or wherever you preach far more frequently than just once a month? If you have the passion, that you claim, nothing should be stopping you. If God has called you to this mission, you don't need anything except Him. You don't need endorsement from your church. You don't need opinions from countless authors. You don't need to spend hours, hours and more hours reading about doing what He has called you to do. You, hopefully, have already read His Instruction book. You, hopefully, already are seeking His guidance through the Holy Spirit.

    I'm just a "retired" layman, yet, yesterday I spent approximately 6 hours away from home, in His service. Shortly, will begin repeating the same again today. Plus this evening will be attending a special service at another church in my community. Every Wednesday is a full day with morning Bible study, work on plumbing in the Fellowship Hall (this week), followed in the evening with choir practice and another Bible study.

    I'm not trying to pat myself on the back with these words. Instead trying to show you that there comes a point in time when reading anything other than God's word is far secondary to doing the work He has called us to do. My calling is different from yours, but the same principle applies. This morning I can choose to read one of those books, previously mentioned, or actually go out and do the work that needs to be done, in His name.

    It's your choice. Use the time God has made available to you to read the Bible, plus those 10 more books you mentioned. Or use the time those 10 books will take, to find an open air spot and actually do what He has called you to do.

    Bluntly, worship those books or worship and honor Him via actually doing what He's called you to do.

    Brother, I'm trying desperately to get you to avoid the mistakes that I've made. It doesn't matter what opinion John Piper or anyone else expresses. What matters is whether this day you can help bring another lost soul to Christ. It's for sure that isn't likely to happen, if you're sitting in a chair reading a book.

    In closing, I have deep regrets, now, over the time, that I lost when I could have been in His service, instead of having my nose in a book. :tear: Just don't want another brother to shed tears later in life for what might have been.

    Edit: Just re-read your post. I don't know where you got the idea that I'm opposed to your calling. Far from it. How many more times do I have to say, pick up your tools and do the work that God has called you to do? IMO, that sure isn't opposition, no matter how you chose to phrase it.
     
    #15 Oldtimer, May 14, 2013
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  16. Greektim

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    Not at all, which makes Van's posts even more unhelpful for this thread. Definitely read them. I just remembered that I changed my siggie to a quote from God is the Gospel. Really good!
     
  17. Darrell C

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    And we all know that the Lord cannot minister through those that do not go to Seminary, lol.

    As I said in the last post, there are some books I would recommend to others, however, what I would warn against is replacing the word of God with books about the word of God. Given the fact that most of us can be highly impressionable and that usually when one exposes themselves to the reasoning of men they can begin to sympathize with them, it is best to be very careful about what it is we read.

    As far as authority goes, I am okay with that, and will submit myself first to God and then those that I believe He has placed in a position of authority in the Body, beginning first with my own Pastors and from there it is up to me, based upon careful examination of what others teach and preach, to decide. When it comes to extrabiblical literature I prefer first to hear these men preach before committing myself to reading their material, as their hearts seem more readily apparent in this. Kind of like texting today: a person can be anyone they want to be, but meet that person in real life and perhaps you may have a different person.

    But the bottom line is the doctrinal position of those that write these books. Those that are young in faith (and I think we can all relate to this) have a great need of being discipled properly, and just as we might watch carefully over a small baby crawling on the floor, who will pick up just about anything and put it in their mouth, even so what we as Christians "ingest" is important.

    We should begin with the word and measure other books by the word, rather than the other way around.

    So I will ask again: have you read "The Gospel According to Jesus" by John MacArthur?

    God bless.
     
  18. Van

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    LOL Greektim, all Calvinist evangelists make little of their hidden gospel. If you go to a Reformed Church and pick up a salvation track, it will pretty much present the Arminian view of the gospel. The way they justify this bait and switch behavior is they use the old chestnut, from man's point of view - straight gospel, but from God's point of view - the Calvinist fiction.

    Again, to be an effective evangelists you must believe what you teach, and two, you must teach the truth.

    John Piper makes a big deal of limited atonement, just like all 5 point Calvinists.

    Bottom line, Calvinism's fiction makes the gospel unattractive, so they soft-pedal their actual beliefs when presenting the gospel. Not a well to drink from.
     
  19. Van

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    Note Calvinism is presented in code, but no mention of limited atonement or the absolute inability to seek God until regenerated. This is the sort of soft pedal deception practiced by all Calvinist evangelicals.
     
  20. Greektim

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    You can keep your LOL. If you paid attention, you'd see that I am talking about your rhetoric in regards to the books mentioned. They have nothing to do w/ Limited Atonement.

    And by the way, the gospel is unattractive. That's why Paul called it foolish and scandalous. I have no problem saying that Jesus died for his people in my gospel presentation. I also have no problem telling them that God's grace is no a potentiality left in their hands but an actuality for his people. No bait and switch.

    So take your accused fiction and get the facts right.
     

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