John Piper

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Sep 11, 2015.

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  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Surely one of the best theologians alive today. Piper has hit homers with Desiring God, Don't Waste your life, God is the gospel, and most of his books. Piper also has some gospel tracts that I sometimes use to mail. Piper is rich, deep, and clear in his writings. Some may disagree with Pipers music, but I think his music is beautiful as I love contemporary.

    I recommend all believers read Desiring God. If you appreciate Piper please post.
     
  2. Crabtownboy

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    Several years ago someone posted a link to a video of Piper on Your Tube. I could not disagree more with a person than I did with Piper when he said that every rape, every abuse of any child, every wife beating is preordained by God for the glory of God.

    Pipe is wrong!
     
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  3. evangelist6589

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    Cute your sources
     
  4. InTheLight

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    Hey, he's just echoing John Calvin.

    “Thieves and murderers, and other evildoers, are instruments of divine providence, being employed by the Lord himself to execute judgments which he has resolved to inflict.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 5)

    “Creatures are so governed by the secret counsel of God, that nothing happens but what he has knowingly and willingly decreed.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 3)

    “The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how muchsoever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay unless in so far as he commands, that they are not only bound by his fetters but are even forced to do him service” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 17, Paragraph 11)
     
  5. Crabtownboy

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    I have not been able to find that particular video with those exact words.

    Here is one where Piper says that God predestines all things ... that would include every rape, every murder, every child abuse, every wife abuse.

    Piper is wrong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxhSr_vA0qo
     
  6. agedman

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    Can you prove by Scriptures that Calvin or Piper were/are wrong?

    God called Neb. his servant, THREE times in Jeremiah (25:9, 27:6, 43:10)and there wasn't much less heathen in him than the vilest of today.

    Christ spoke of the judgment to fall upon Jerusalem. I am certain there was no pillage or rape in that horrible time. It is that time scholars credit the scattering of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, of course, there were no rapes or murders by the sweet god fearing free loving Roman soldiers upon the believers.

    I am a firm believer that absolutely NOTHING touches the believer in life or living that is not approved by God.

    So, in effect is Piper and Calvin wrong?
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    That would make God the originator of evil and therefore sinful. Further, there is no scripture that says God creates evil.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    Yes, both are wrong on that point.

    Their stance makes God the author of all evil. I do not believe that is true.

    Do you believe that every rape, abuse of children, abuse of women, etc. glorifies God? If so, how?
     
  9. agedman

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    The Scriptures state that God will turn the heart of the king to whatever purpose He desires.

    Has nothing to do with "creation" or God "creating evil."

    The Bible does not show God's disapproval of USING the evil heart-ed person for his own purpose.

    A good example is the pharaoh with whom Moses contended.
     
  10. Marooncat79

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    . Then there is no comfort in Gods providence and Romans 8:28-32 is a farce. It says "all things" which includes "bad things"
     
  11. agedman

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    No, the "stance" does not "make(s) God the author of all evil." It would be speculative and opinionated to ascribe Calvin and Piper's views as such.

    Besides, the statement does not prove by Scriptures that Piper and Calvin were wrong.
     
  12. Marooncat79

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    It demonstrated that Gods Word is tru, in that man is evil, yet God and His Word prevail
     
  13. agedman

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    One is either a child of the King of Kings or not.

    No one messes with the child of the King of Kings without His permission.

    Job is an example of this principle.

    God will be glorified.

    Does that give excuse for the items and people that afflict and effect the believer that are evil? Not in the slightest.

    God establishes rules and boundaries (again see Job) and they are not crossed.
     
    #13 agedman, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2015
  14. Marooncat79

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    The man named Job is a perfect example
     
  15. blessedwife318

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    I would rather believe that the bad things that have happened to me have a greater purpose, such as glorifying God then, to believe in a god so powerless as to not be able to prevent them in the first place and then have him just try to pick up the pieces afterwords. That is not a comforting thought.
    But there is great comfort in a God powerful enough to ordain all things for his glory.
     
  16. agedman

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    Ron Hamilton wrote these lyrics:

    God never moves without purpose or plan
    When trying His servant and molding a man.
    Give thanks to the LORD though your testing seems long;
    In darkness He giveth a song.

    I could not see through the shadows ahead;
    So I looked at the cross of my Savior instead.
    I bowed to the will of the Master that day;
    Then peace came and tears fled away.

    Now I can see testing comes from above;
    God strengthens His children and purges in love.
    My Father knows best, and I trust in His care;
    Through purging more fruit I will bear.

    O Rejoice in the LORD
    He makes no mistake,
    He knoweth the end of each path that I take,
    For when I am tried
    And purified,
    I shall come forth as gold.


     
  17. robustheologian

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    Really??? God doesn't create evil (רַע)???

     
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  18. robustheologian

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    John Piper is one of the greatest pastors, teachers, and theologians of our time.
     
  19. robustheologian

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    If God preordained the most evil act in human history (the crucifixion of his Son) for the glory of God, how is anything less evil not preordained for the glory of God?
     
  20. DHK

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    Perhaps God foreordained the most loving act in human history and held responsible those that did it. They shall not escape the judgment of God.
     
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