John Smythe and women deacons

"This is true. Just because Phoebe is called a "deaconess" does not mean she was a deacon as described in 1 Timothy. She may have been doing some of the same servantly things as the deacons, and was merely called a "deaconess"."

Sound familiar?

 

In 1593. Richard Bancroft wrote that a yet to be resolved question was "Whether there ought to be women Deacons in euery reformed Church?".

 

Oops doesn't Paul also tell the brethren to submit themselves to all those who labored with him?

 

"Separate Baptists drew from the traditions of early English Baptists, allowing women to speak and vote in congregational meetings. They also ordained both men and women as preachers. . . . Regular Baptists, on the other hand, began early to disapprove of women speaking and voting in church, and by the mid-eighteenth century, the number of women serving as deacons and elders was declining"

 

Can be interpreted to mean marital faithfulness...

Cultural differences

Don't take today's definition (which is wrong...No where did a deacon in the bible have authority... only servanthood) and impose it on Bible times...

I can see your point... I grew up seeing your point.. but I can also see others as well...

BTW.. I have no dog in this fight... I see it as a church autonomy issue... if a church wants it... no other church has the right to say that church can't.

 

Incidentaly, the organization to which I belong does not ordain women to ministry. They do allow female missionaries to preach from the pulpit at regular services, however.

Many of them frown on female deacons as well. Often allow the head of the women's missionary society (whatever it may be called) to hold a chair on the deacon's board.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Such as???

 

Perhaps your modern church should become a biblical church and not redefine what a true deacon really is as mentioned in the Bible?

Redefining scripture to match a pet theology is a serious problem in the modern church today. That is one of the problems with those who choose to pick a theology that makes them comfortable but not in accordance with sound doctrine. Those kind are found in all kinds of churches.

 

Is it not true that in many Baptist churches today, deacons are really serving as both elders and deacons? This is true in my church. We do not have women deacons because they would have a position of authority over men in the church.

So maybe part of the problem is semantic.

 

Our denomination does ordain women, and we have deaconesses as well.

My view is if God calls a woman to pastor or be a deacon.. she had better listen to God instead of man.
But I am not called to listen.

I tend to have a traditional conservative view that women should not be pastors.. (Probably more the way I was raised than the Bible arguments against it.. because I have seen some very good hermenuetics for women in ministry... ) but I will gladly work with them within our denomination.

If a church desires a woman to be a pastor or deacon, it is the church's choice.
Just as it is my choice to not attend a church that does.

 

Philip's Daughters...

How many would allow a woman to preach today in church.

Deborah was a spiritual leader.. had authority over men...

 

Tim,

I am somewhat like you, except I have sat under a female pastor in the Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec. It didn't trouble me at all. She delivered a splendid message.

I too have examined the passages involving female leaders and quite agree that it includes sound hermeneutics.

Of interest, the late F.F. Bruce, considered to be of the finest expositors also supports deaconesses, as did the head of the most chauvenistic group in the evangelical world, the Plymouth Brethren of England, Mr. E.W. Rogers. He said, "My view is that the scripture provides for deacons and deaconesses in the local church." To which F.F. Bruce adds, "I agree." Incidentally, the PB's don't have ministers.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

The problem is giving them authority that no man or woman should have.

 

Can you give me the reference for Philip's daughters? I don't recall what they did.

Deborah was a spiritual leader because God couldn't find a man to lead. It was a judgment on Israel. And she was not a NT pastor.

I see no biblical support for a woman pastor at all, and I don't believe God calls women to be pastors.

 

Are we making excuses on why God chooses women to lead????

 

Acts 21:9
(9) And the same man had four daughters, virgins, who did prophesy.