Jonah

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by chuck2336, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. chuck2336

    chuck2336
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    I was asked a question I have never heard before.

    This lady I work with asked if Jonah had died while in the belly. She said she read it in a Vernon McGee (I think) commentary.

    I have never heard of this before.

    Have you?
     
  2. Johnv

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    The Jonah narrative says nothing about Jonah dying, or coming back to life, where the whale/big fish is mentioned. Hence, I'd conclude that Jonah did not die.
     
  3. preachinjesus

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    I've not heard this before. In translating the book I can honestly say I never saw any scholar who suggested this.

    Maybe the rationale comes from the 1 Peter 3 passage, but that's about Jesus. The text of Jonah never hints that he died.
     
  4. Jim1999

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    Chapter two verse two could give the impression that Jonah actually died in the great fish's belly: "Out of the belly of hell (the grave) cried I, and you heard my voice." There is only one way to go to either hell or the grave and that is through death.

    It is not something I would get worked up over, but death has been an understanding by some.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  5. ray Marshall

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    I have never heard anyone espound on that either. Maybe he is using the comparison that; "As Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights, so must the Son be in the heart of the Earth for three days and three nights. Jesus was dead at that time but the Bible is silent as far as I know about Jonah as a comparison to Jesus Christ being dead."
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    maybe he just lost consciousness, and not actually died as in the soul, spirit and body separating ?
     
  7. Jim1999

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    Are you all suggesting we can actually go to hell or the grave alive?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Baptist4life

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    Perhaps that was just his expression of what it felt like being in the belly of a great fish.
     
  9. rdwhite

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    Yes Jim I agree, based on that passage it is my understanding that he did indeed die and come back to life. This is how I teach the passage.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    You beat me to it Ray. I too thought some could make a wrong conclusion from the Mt 12 passage.
     
  11. Jim1999

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    For as long as I can remember, the common equation made by all preachers was Jonah and Jesus being three days and nights in hell/death.

    I don't understand anyone saying they never heard this before.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. Johnv

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    This does not necessitate an actual death. The word Sheol is also often used to describe a state of dread or feeling as if you could die. Psalm 116:3 says, "The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of Sheol got hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow." Also, "For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Sheol.( Psalm 86:13 )" David wasn't actually dead before he wrote this psalm.
     
  13. Jim1999

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    Maybe Jesus didn't actually die either!

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. Johnv

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    One shoudl be creful there. That's the same thing geocentrists will claim: If the sun doesn't rise, then maybe Jesus didn't rise. And if you remember, there used to be a geocentrist on this board several years ago who repeatedly said just that.

    Anyhoo, methinks that's apples an oranges, especially when the question of whether Jonah was dead or alive in the belly isn't an important biblical issue.
     
    #14 Johnv, Aug 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2009
  15. preachinjesus

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    That is interesting. The Hebrew context, imho, doesn't lead us to that but it is a thing to keep in mind. I just took the whole soliloquy to be Jonah being dramatic. Because he's a dramatic guy.

    Not being dogmatic, because I can reasonably accept this interpretation, but worthy of discussion is whether this is Jonah being his normal overbearing self. Sort of like a teenager telling me the other day, "Love him so much I could die." Well they aren't going to, they're just being dramatic.

    I think this kind of thing happens in Scripture from time to time. In the case of Jonah it is part of a pattern of the whole book. Jonah keeps going down geopgraphically until the fish then begins to come up. A clever rhetorical device to show how when we run from God we are in the pits (hey that's a fun idiomatic thing just like Jonah) until we repent and begin following His leadership.

    Also 2:7 would indicate that though death was approaching him, Jonah was still able to call out to God. In this cry God heard Jonah and (and I love the NET here) "Then the Lord commanded the fish and it disgorged Jonah on dry land." (2:10)

    Anyhoo, not being dogmatic just a fun convo as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for voicing this, its good stuff to think on.:thumbs:
     
    #15 preachinjesus, Aug 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2009
  16. EdSutton

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    Put me in the group that believes that Jonah died.

    The narrative and Jonah's prayer as given here in Jonah 1 & 2 has these things to say.
    Note the bolded words and the 'time-line,' as it were.
    Also note the usage of the past tense in Jonah's prayer.

    And Jim1999 has it absolutely right when he notes that the only way one goes to 'Sheol' or 'Hades,' the realm of the dead, is through death.

    And I would say that these bolded words are hardly descriptive of one who was cast overboard into the sea, and immediately swallowed up by the 'prepared' great fish, rather the descriptions of going "down to the foundations of the mountains (HCSB)," where "Weeds were wrapped around my head," and "the bars of the earth [closed] upon me forever" (DBY) are indicative of one who was physically dead, or at the very least, was dying.

    The late Dr. M. R. DeHaan also held this view, and the Geneva Study Bible notes have this to say -
    Again, much as Jim1999 said, I am not going to get very 'worked up' if someone does not agree, but this is what I believe the Scripture teaches.

    Ed
     
  17. Tom Butler

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    Permit me to divert for a brief moment from the OP, because it reminded me of a monolog by Mike Warnke a few years ago. I paraphrase:

    Imagine you're a Ninevite fisherman standing on the lake shore, casting your net out into the water (or maybe your rod and reel) You look up and see a man off in the distance, walking toward you. As he gets closer, you notice that his clothing is in rags, he is covered in seaweed, his skin is white, as if bleached by digestive juices, and his eyes bugged out as if he had been thorough a horrible trauma.

    He walks up to the Ninevite fisherman and says in a hoarse voice "Repent!!!"

    Wouldn't you?
     
  18. Johnv

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    I agree. This is a religious liberty issue, nothing worthy of anyone getting worked up over. My frustration is that when someone says "Maybe Jesus didn't actually die either!", that doesn't bode well for granting religious liberty and not getting worked up over it.
     
  19. kyredneck

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    That's funny. Better yet, imagine this Ninevite out there casting the shoreline and he observes this huge fish swim up into the shallows and puke this man out on shore, his clothing is in rags, he is covered in seaweed, his skin is white, as if bleached by digestive juices, and his eyes bugged out as if he had been through a horrible trauma.
     
  20. DrRandyGrace

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    Boys and girls, it's about 200 miles from the coast of Assyria to Nineveh. Ponder that one for a moment. As to the original post, I don't think Jonah actually died.
     

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