Joy Unspeakable -- D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by preacher4truth, Oct 5, 2013.

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Is Spirit Baptism Post-Conversion Biblical?

  1. No, there is only one Baptism of the Spirit and it happens at conversion.

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  2. Yes, Spirit Baptism after conversion is Biblical.

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  3. I have been Baptized in the Spirit after conversion.

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  4. I have not received this 2nd Baptism, but desire it.

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  5. I have not received this 2nd Baptism, and do NOT desire it.

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  6. I am not sure if there is a 2nd Baptism after conversion.

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  7. Other answer

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Has anyone on BB read this book?

    Is there another baptizing of the Spirit after conversion for some? Is this a Biblical doctrine?
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I have read the book. I have not solidified it, meaning 2 nd. Spiritual Blessings, as ligitimate....though many in the old Methodist movement fervently believed it and preached it.. David Martyn Lloyd - Jones was from that Religious society, though I must preface they are the now extinct Welsh Calvinistic Methodists....not Arminian United or Weslian Groups.
     
  3. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    Right. Well I feel he has offered compelling evidence. I take it you haven't concluded if it is or isn't legitimate. Several great evangelists have had an experience like this according to their own testimony, and I believe most televangelists have made a mockery of valid Spirit power/baptism.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Yes...I am still on the fence but inclined toward my dear brother Martyns position. However since I only hear of it spoken in Charismatic churches,ive not studied it beyond the parameters of the book. My ancestors who were Calvinistic Methodists were very enthusiastic. But they did experience revivals in the UK....unfortunately I have not.

    Do you think our skepticism today quenches the Holy Spirit? I believe that was Lloyd -Jones concern.
     
  5. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth
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    The skepticism is a good point.

    We have to ask why others are in fact skeptical of this. One reason seems obvious as the charismatics have caused many to hold disdain toward the doctrine via their Scripture denying manifestations of 'baptism'. These are none other than 'neo-enthusiasts' as the original enthusiasts were thoroughly condemned and rebutted in the days of the Puritans and within Scripture prior to this. 'The Religious Affections' by Jonathan Edwards is a good treatment of that subject.

    There is evidence that comes from the good evangelist George Whitefield, from Robert Murray McCheyne, D L Moody and many others that they had a second and powerful blessing come upon them which empowered their ministries.

    Teachings in Baptist churches tend to convey that there is only one baptism in the Spirit and that this happens once and for all at conversion. There is also some repudiation toward those who believe contrary to that teaching, and the typical assumption is that to believe it is to be a charismatic. Shallow thinking like this is rampant among Baptists, is shameful, and shows again the anti-intellectualism that exists within the Baptist faith, and this is but one reason why the church is derided by the world.

    Furthermore such a view fails to look at the historical facts, and fails to understand that the Apostles already had the Spirit given them prior to Acts 2 as per John 20:22.

    Looking at this issue though we see the Sovereignty of the Spirit (John 3:8 for application).
     
    #5 preacher4truth, Oct 5, 2013
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  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Im in total agreement with you & I believe M L-J was sincere as was Wesley, Moody & George Whitfield. The problem I believe is that the baptist seminaries are teaching otherwise.....for example, for evidence please find below a commentary to me by a recent Graduate of a The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary located in Louisville, Kentucky.

    " Wesley for instance, who instead of realizing that he was finally and truly saved by his experience with God instead created a new doctrine of second blessing to explain the circumstances of his experience. There is no such thing as a second blessing, but that is often the way those who were religious in an human sense, but whom God actually justified, see their actual conversion experience, they thinking all along that they were already Christian."

    So to conclude, is this Graduate even suggesting that people like Wesly, M L-J, Whitfield & Moody were not really Born Again Christians? If so, thats a reach & thats the manure being fed to these seminarians.
     
  7. preacher4truth

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    So this guy believes he knows better than each of them? Presumptuous arrogance IMO. It's fitting as well if I am correct in my assumption as to who this is, as the self-appointed track record of such is going around telling people what they believe no matter what they say, assuming he and he alone is aware of the truth about other persons, and they're all clueless without him. Either that, or SBTS gives their students this kind of arrogance and it's contagious.

    That theory is highly doubtful as these for the most part knew beforehand that they were saved. If this were simply a salvational experience, then lets apply that to all the converted, and ask why we don't see the power of God upon these as well and at least more frequently.
     

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