Judas Iscariot

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by pinoybaptist, Jan 6, 2006.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    I heard something for the first time over the airwaves about Judas Iscariot, and I wonder if there are any among you learned men who knows soemthing about this, and any references we can find on it.
    It makes for an interesting study.
    Was Judas a Jew ?
    What the speaker said was that Judas was at most probably just half-Jew or not at all, and that Iscariot was a reference to his birthplace, a city or town called Iscaria or something.
    Thanks for any input.
     
  2. Brother Ian

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    From: http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew3/D3-JudasIscariot.html

    "Iscariot most likely means "man from Kerioth," a city in the Negev of the region in Jesus' day which was called Judea. There are several other theories about this word. If this is true, Judas was the only one of the twelve apostles the scriptures record not coming from Galilee. Galileans were looked down upon by Judeans."

    Even if it is true, would it make a difference?
     
  3. just-want-peace

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    What bothers me most about Judas is that after all the time he spent with Jesus, he did/could not return to Jesus and ask forgiveness.

    I can understand his motivation IF it was designed to force Jesus into the imagined role of political "MESSIAH", as I have sometimes wanted to "help" when I should be waiting.

    He obviously was never a true believer!
     
  4. StraightAndNarrow

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    I've always wondered about Judas. If you take this position about him you'd have to take the same position about contemporary Christians who sin and turn away from God. They aren't (or never were) saved. I've wondered why Christ would take someone into His inner circle who wasn't a true believer. Think of the many times He addressed the deciples as a whole about matters of faith and think about all the loving support He gave to all of them.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    Well, Pinoybaptist, I am not a learned man but, this site looked awfully interesting and came closer to answering your question than anything else that I saw.

    Judas Iscariot

    Peace-
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
  6. Hope of Glory

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    Also, he gave them all the power to perform, signs, wonders, and miracles. Why would he give a lost person this ability?
     
  7. Scarlett O.

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    Hope and Glory,

    You need to read the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 and see what happened to the person who did not use them correctly.

    Judas Iscariot went to hell. Period.

    He was never saved. Never a true believer. Never loved Jesus. Never called him Lord and Master as the other disciples did, only "teacher".

    He was a thief who was put in charge of the treasury and a betrayer who was made a confidant of Christ.

    Jesus placed him there for a reason.

    But never mind what I have to say....here is what the Bible says about Judas.

    Matthew 26:23-25
    "Jesus replied, 'The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.' Then Judas, the one who would betray him said, 'Surely not I, Rabbi?' Jesus answered, 'Yes, it is you.'

    John 13:10-11
    "Jesus answered, 'A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you (Peter) are clean, though not every one of you.' For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean."

    John 17:12
    (Jesus praying for his disciples)
    "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destrction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    John 6:70-71
    "Then Jesus replied, 'Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!' He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him."
     
  8. Hope of Glory

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    I think you need to re-read the parable of the talants: It's talking about rewards and loss, not salvation. Our spiritual salvation is not a reward; it's a gift.

    There is not a single parable in the Bible that I can think of that is comparing lost people to saved people; they are all comparing the faithful to the unfaithful. They are all talking about works on the part of those involved.

    Scripture supports that Judas was saved, but he did not live his life faithfully. He may have ended up in hell, but he certainly will not end up in the lake of fire.
     
  9. Scarlett O.

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    I would like to know that scripture, please.
     
  10. StraightAndNarrow

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    I don't know what this means. In the end there is Heaven and there is Hell. Which do you say Judas will reside in?
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    <red faced with embarrassment and grinning sheepishly while scratching my head like a boy caught with his hand in the proverbial cookie jar>

    No offense, Scarlett O. I used the term 'men' as a generic.

    But thanks for the input.
     
  12. Linda64

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    And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14-15)
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    First, Hope of Glory,
    Judas Iscariot was the son of perdition. He was not of Christ. He will not be in the Lord's Kingdom. He will end up in the lake of fire with all who choose to reject Christ.

    Second, StraightandNarrow,
    death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire. Then whosoever's name is not found in the Lamb's Book of Life is cast into that lake of fire.
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

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    Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    Well, I'm not prepared to preach on it, lest I be called a heretic since I'm developing a private view of Scriptures in light of this (if it were true, that is).

    If it were not true, the intrigue it generated in me is worth it. I like left fielders and surprises at times. Stimulates this foggy, diabetic, six-decade brain of mine.

    Heretic because my thinking will not be along the lines of accepted mainstream Christian views on Judas (that he also was a Jew, like everybody else in Jesus' close circle of disciples), though I guess with the animosity towards Judas I guess nobody would care even if he were Filipino.

    As most everybody on this board knows, I am a Primitive Baptist who believes in the absolute sovereignty of God in election and that he does what he does in the army of heaven and earth, and that Judas may well have been the reason for Isaiah's question to the potter: why hast thou made me thus ?

    Now, I also happen to believe that not all Israel is Israel, and not all Jews who call themselves Jews (literally) are Jews but he is a Jew who one inwardly the translation of which is not all in Christendom are true Christians but the Christian is the one who belongs to Christ by operation of the Spirit of God, and by Divine Edict from eternity past.

    Also, that as Paul said, 'all things that were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope which to me means that the Bible was not written for the sake and benefit of all mankind but for the sake and benefit of God's people (whether they believe the same way I do or not).

    Having said these, and noticing that in the Bible there are only the wicked and the righteous, and that God uses both to illustrate certain principles, were it not possible that in the inclusion of Judas, a non-Jew, among His first disciples, God, in Christ, was actually illustrating another principle ?

    Think about it.

    The Son of God lives among Israel, who call themselves the chosen people of God, and calls out twelve, eleven true Israelites among Israelites, and one who is probably not a full Israelite, but one who walks and talks like one, and is accepted by others, and in fact trusted with the money, but only Jesus knows the truth.

    It's a little hazy yet.

    But there's a wrench I found that can be thrown in this machine though which will probably be enough not to pursue this trend of thought.

    It's John 13:26, which identifies Judas as the son of Simon, which is a very Jewish name.

    Oh, well.....
     
  16. Linda64

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    The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said. (Matthew 26:24-25)

    He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it? Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly. (John 13:25-27)

    While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

    PERDITION: Destruction and judgment
     
  17. Hope of Glory

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    I think you're confusing salvation (which is by the finished work on the cross) with entrance into the coming Kingdom (which is based upon our faithful living).

    There are many different words that are translated as "hell" and unfortunately, many people have come to confuse "hell" with the lake of fire. "Hell" is Gehenna, tartarus, the grave, and probably a few other words, but nowhere in the Bible does it refer to the lake of fire. Jesus went to hell when he died, and I don't think he went into the lake of fire, now did he?

    Let's start with this: Judas was a disciple. John 12:4 says, "Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot…" To be a disciple of Christ you must be saved, you must already be a child of God in God's family.

    A disciple is called out from among the saved. And not every child of God is a disciple. A disciple is not happy with just being saved, but instead, he desires to go on further knowing the Lord's will for his life. He is "growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ" as we are told in 2 Peter 3:18. He continues in the words of Christ and is getting to know the truth which sets him free from the power of sin. A disciple has a hunger to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ. His level of commitment is higher than that of a normal Christian who attends church only on Sundays.

    Judas Iscariot was a disciple! That is what the Bible says, simply and plainly!
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

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    Disciple means follower. Does not necessarily mean Judas was saved.
     
  19. standingfirminChrist

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    Jesus plainly stated that Judas was the son of perdition. His prayer in John 17 clearly states that Judas was not of the flock. Sure, he followed Jesus, but many followed Jesus who were not of the flock. Many turned away and followed Him no more in John 6.

    1. A learner; a scholar; one who receives or professes to receive instruction from another; as the disciples of Plato.

    2. A follower; an adherent to the doctrines of another. Hence the constant attendants of Christ were called his disciples; and hence all Christians are called his disciples, as they profess to learn and receive his doctrines and precepts.
    American Tract Society Dictionary
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    Hope of Glory said:

    I tend to disagree with you here, friend. Peter told the churches:

    >>But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 2 Pe. 3:18<<

    Now, to me this means it is incumbent upon all children of God to whom gospel instruction comes to be a disciple, a student of Christ, to emulate Christ, and to live as citizens of the kingdom.

    The ministry , on the other hand, is where few are chosen. Not every child of God is called and set apart for the ministry.

    Judas Iscariot was unregenerate, even when he was walking with Jesus' crowd, and with Jesus Himself.

    We will not find him in heaven, that is not his place.
     

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