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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Bro. Williams, Nov 4, 2007.
Well, what think ye?
Judas, the son of perdition, was lost.
Although I agree that it is important to check on things, rather than assume them to be true, I do wonder in this case what caused you to imagine that Judas might be saved.
Brother, don't worry about me, at least on this one.
A brother in the Lord who has been a faithful and straight preacher for many years is not hinting that he thinks that based on:
Jesus calls him friend in the garden
Judas is sorry for his sin
Judas returns the money
If I had to guess as well... I would guess that preacher has also scanned over that recently published "gospel" of Judas.
But I know he wasn't saved, I just wanted to check the temperature of the water with those on this board.
"Haven't I chosen twelve of you, and yet one of you is a devil?" That's a good hint!
Where can we find Judas repenting? I can see him regretting his actions certainly, but there is no hint in the Gospels of him repenting in a biblical or godly way. Besides, where is his confession of belief in Christ as Lord and Saviour leading to saving faith?
I would venture to answer that preacher this way:
Well might Judas be Jesus' friend, for all appearances' sake. The apostles never suspected it could be Judas who will betray their Master, a hint that Judas may have been known to be trusted by Jesus. Judas was the "treasurer", another hint that Judas had a trusted reputation among the disciples, and the Master.
Thru David, Scripture also says:
Psalm 41:9 -
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
Friend doesn't always mean saved.
He was sorry he betrayed somebody who had done nothing wrong to him, but the deed is done. A murderer can be sorry he murdered his victim, but it doesn't mean he won't do it again. Judas was sorry his greed for money caused him to turn against someone who called him "friend", but he's still greedy. It doesn't mean he will do it again. He was willing to see Jesus put in prison, but not killed.
That heathen king to whom Abraham lied to, saying Sarah was his sister, returned Sarah to Abraham, and God Himself spoke to Abimelech, but does that mean Abimelech is God's child ?
Was it Godly repentance ? Did he go to Jesus and asked Jesus for forgiveness ? Did he go to the apostles and ask them for forgiveness ? Did he go to God and ask God for forgiveness ? No. He did not submit himself to God's mercy and righteousness. He killed himself.
I sin against you, I don't knock on your neighbor's door to ask him for forgiveness, right ? Nor should I cut myself and shed my own blood in the privacy of my own room because I sinned against you.
All References From TNIV
Psalm 41:9 : Even my close friend , someone I trusted , one who shared my bread , has lifted up his heel against me .
Matthew 26:24 : The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him . But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man ! It would be better for him if he had not been born .
Luke 22:22 : The Son of man will go as it has been decreed . But woe to that man who betrays him !
John 6:70,71 : The Jesus replied , "Have I not chosen you , the Twelve ? Yet one of you is a devil !" ( He meant Judas , the son of Simon Iscariot , who , though one of the Twelve , was later to betray him. )
John 17:12 : While I was with them , I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me . None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled .
Acts 1:25 : to take over the apostolic ministry , which Judas left to go where he belongs .
Lost, IMO, but remind me why I care?
Why respond if you have to be reminded why you care in the first place?
Judas was lost and could very well be the Anti-Christ to come on the scene in the near future.
Whoa, where did that idea come from?
You and Bro Williams are two peas in a pod!
The evidence suggests Judas was lost. However, speaking of David and murder, and stealing (a man's wife), was David saved? Could David have murdered again? Could David have stolen again? Everyone on this thread seems to draw a different line for Judas, although most agree he was on the wrong side of that line.
Was David expressing Godly sorrow for his sins, or was he just sorry for what he had done as Judas according to most on the thread? If David is saved, and Judas is lost, what is the dividing line? What made the difference?
What type of sorrow lead Judas to commit suicide?
Judas went to a specific location, the same location that the Anti-Christ will come from. Also, Judas is referred to as the Son of Perdition, who else goes by such a title?
Just an idea, didn't state that I believe it 100%, but it is something to consider and or think about.
There are more common denominators than just the above mentioned.
I was thinking that myself, but I hope Bro. Williams considers being in the pod with me a great honor. Thanks
I heard someone else say that recently. Someplace unorthodox - caught me off guard.
I think it comes from the obsession with finding antichrist in everything from shoe horns to Toyotas.
I read the plot for a movie not too long ago that I decided not to watch. Judas was Dracula - no, Dracula was Judas. :thumbs:
All this time I thought I had broken the code to prove Calvin was coming back as the Anti-Christ.
Calvin died in 1564. If you subtract the 1000 year reign of Christ, then add the 100 prophets that Obadiah hid in 1 Kings 18, then add the two mites the widow gave in Mark 12, voila, you get 666.
Pretty solid I would say. Judas?? nah
I think you are taking things a little too far. I am not the head of the "Anti-Christ Search Party". Although, he is out and about today, whomever he maybe, I am not really looking for him as much as I am waiting for Him.
So needless to say, like I already mentioned. It was an idea, a thought, a notion.