Jude 24-25 questions

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 12strings, May 2, 2012.

  1. 12strings

    12strings
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    A few questioned prompted by this passage, and John Piper's Sermon from T4G, listen here: http://t4g.org/media/2012/04/glory-majesty-dominion-and-authority-keep-us-safe-for-everlasting-joy-3/

    1. If you do NOT hold to OSAS (or Eternal Security, or Perserverance), how do you reconcile your beliefs with verse 24?

    2. If you DO hold to OSAS...etc, why is it that many Christians DO stumble? Is he ABLE to keep us from stumbling, but not WILLING?
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    believe Jude is addressing the fact f the Lord preserving/keeping His own against the day that we will receive our fullness of salvation...

    That he can and will keep us from "falling away" from the faith...

    Not really addressing 'besitting sins", as paul says that God has provided for us delieverance from such, but up to us to avail ourselves of those spiritual blessings in christ to overcome and win our race!
     
  3. revmwc

    revmwc
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    First look at the Greek which is "Aptaistos" meaning "not stumbling, standing firm, exempt from falling" so how do you take the word here?

    The KJV says falling and the term exempt from falling would apply if we as believers are eternally secure. So what is Jude saying Jesus keeps us exempt from falling, falling how? We sin Jude and God the Holy Spirit knew we would continue in sin so that is not what is meant here. Jesus keeps from losing our salvation, we are eternally secure we are exempt from falling out of salvation because of Christ Jesus. Christ presents us Faultless that is where Him being our Propitiation comes in, God is satisfied with Christ having paid our sins and we Have Christ righteousness placed in our account or His Propititory sacrfice is ours.
     
  4. 12strings

    12strings
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    So would it be a mistake for me to say it is only by the grace of God that I have not cheated on my wife and disqualified myself for ministry? Or does God also keep me from that kind of sin, which I could possibly commit as an eternally secure Christian?

    Or should I say, God's grace keeps me from abandoning the faith, but my own efforts keep me from commiting big sins? Does God not also keep me from those?
     
  5. Allan

    Allan
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    Why not just state, by God's grace I am where I am, and by faith I will seek to continue to walk in obedience as I learn to trust Him more.
     
    #5 Allan, May 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2012
  6. revmwc

    revmwc
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    Look at Job, was it God that kept Job from cursing Him? Did Job make conciscious choices not to curse God in adversity.

    Then Paul tells us there is a war within us as believers in:


    Gal. 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    If you allow the Spirit to Control instead of your Old Nature which is in the flesh then you don't fall or fulfill the lust of the flesh.

    Here is the Christian Way of Life:

    Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

    We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit, that means to allow Him to control our lives, when we do we will not practice sin, we will not excessively sin. Paul's point when a person is drunk with wine which is excess they are controlled by that wine, just like when we allow sin to control it is excess. When you are filled or controled by the Spirit you will do what God's plan is not what the flesh wants you to do.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    The Grace of God saves and changes us from a sinner to a saint, and He grants us the Holy Spirit, Bible, jesus as High priest to enable us the ways/means to live godly, but still we are required to "walk the walk"!
     

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