Judge Not...

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by bound, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. bound

    bound
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    Grace and Peace,

    Recently I got in a bit of a debate with a Paster as I was leaving his Church after a visit. I wasn't impressed with his 'feel-good' sermon and voiced my opinion and the first thing that came out of his mouth was "Judge Not"...

    The discussion was in regard to continuing in a life of sin as a Christian (homosexuality, adultery, etc) in which he affirmed that "sinning was our hang-up and not God who loves us".

    My question is how are we to interpret Matthew 7:1 "Judge not so that you will not be judged" and yet exercise discernment to test for False Prophets and Anti-christs?

    Help me understand this better...
     
  2. Rufus_1611

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    The judgement spoken of in Matthew 7 pertains to hypocritical judgement and the spirit of the judgement. However, righteous judgement is implored and commanded of throughout the Holy Bible. I loathe the consistent misinterpretation of Matthew 7 to apply to all forms of judgement, the harm it has caused to Christianity and how it is seemingly one of the few verses that Christians (and non-Christians alike) seem to have memorized.

    "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" - 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

    "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." - John 7:24
     
  3. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
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    The test for false prophets and antichrists is pretty simple. It's found in I John 4 and it involves acknowledgement of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the Living God. "Spirits" that refuse to acknowledge this are anti-christ, or false prophets.

    Chiming in to voice your opinion on a doctoral matter following a sermon, aside from being just plain rude, is exactly the kind of judgement and discernment that Jesus is talking about in Matthew. It smacks of arrogance, and is certainly not consistent with the way the scripture teaches us to approach such matters. The pastor may have been mistaken, but just because his error upset you, or didn't conform to your beliefs doesn't make him subject to your opinion. Had you approached him privately and asked to discuss what he said, you might have gotten a different response. At that point, he could have clarified his statement for you, and you could have respectfully offered your disagreement with him. Keep in mind that no one in this life is ever going to reach either sinless or doctrinal perfection, including pastors, and you. We're saved by grace and as receivers of it in abundance, we should also give our fair share of it.
     
  4. bound

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    Grace and Peace Jack Matthews,

    Are we not asked "to test"?

    Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. - John 4:1

    Although I am not inclined to be reactionary to your response I do believe that you have leapt to the conclusion that I spoke with the paster in front of the congregation which is not the case. I waited till all but a few Deacons and I were still in the Church before I asked the paster to explain some of his points in the sermon.

    I don't believe he was overly upset by the exchange and neither was I. I'm only bringing it up here to listen to the communities opinions.

    I hope that clarifies things a bit more for you.

    Peace.
     
  5. donnA

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    1corinthians 5:
    1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

    Apparently there is a method of judging, here Paul judged. I think it has to do with attitude of heart, and reasons for judging. It is wrong to judge with an I do better then that, I'm better or more spiritual attitude. It must be recognized that we all mess up, and we are no better then the person being judged, they are off track right now, and need prayer and a loving attitude from us.
     
  6. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    As a rule I would tend to agree with this. If the Pastor presented sin in the way it has been communicated in the op then what we have is passive agreement with these types of sins. They should never be overlooked or accepted as the norm. As to how to address the Pastor, I would say you have wasted your time. Find another church where biblical values wil be tuaght lifted up and encouraged rather than set aside. Never waste breath on scorners.
     
  7. bound

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    Grace and Peace 2 Timothy2:1-4,

    When the Apostle Paul exhorts us to 'test everything' I dare say that I believe him to include our own presumptions which is why I offer my thoughts here for review and discussion. I am not convinced that I am entirely correct and I welcome feedback and discussion.

    Thanks and God Bless.
     
  8. Gershom

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    Baptist Only Forum, stymie.
     
    #8 Gershom, Mar 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2007
  9. Gershom

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    To answer the question, we are to interpret the verse in its context.
     
  10. Allan

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    Actaully the passage continues and states about the mote and beam. Take the beam out of your own eye AND THEN YOU SHALL SEE CLEARLY to take the mote (splinter) out of your brothers. As you can see we ARE to judge but only after we have first judged ourselves in like manner as we will judge them.

    We are to do a double check on ourselves (in life, heart, knowledge) and get THAT right first, BEFORE we go and address anothers imperfection or misunderstandings. (and of course sin itself).

    Notice it states that with what judgement you give, it shall be done so equally to you. Therefore watch the manner and intent of which you judge.
     
    #10 Allan, Mar 13, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2007
  11. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4
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    I agree. But we need to remember that Jesus was addresing lost people not Christians. What they needd was salvation in Christ and that would be the beam they needed to take care of.
     
  12. Allan

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    Actaully He was addressing His message at both sets of people. He was speaking specifically to the believers. That aside...

    You are interposing salvation into the context . Though the imagery can be applied that is not the context in which Jesus was addressing believers and their judging of others. Remember, Jesus was giving the Sermon on the Mount or also understood as the Kingdom principles in which they (and we) as Gods peopls are to live both physically and spiritually.

    The sermon on the mount was to believers and how they should live.
     
    #12 Allan, Mar 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2007

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